Devotions with Dre Episode 30: Book of Revelation Part 11: Supernatural Creatures and Elders that Worship
This is our next installment of the podcast. We’re in Revelation looking at the heavenly scene in chapters 4-5, and today we’re looking at the heavenly creatures and elders that worship (Rev 4:4-11).
So first thing’s first - go read the passage!
4:4a "Around the throne there were 24 thrones."
Genuinely, this is not what I expected in the vision (I thought God's throne would be solo). These thrones of course are lesser thrones, not central or focal point.
Before John notices the elders, he sees their thrones
God doesn’t have to be like this but His heart is to co-reign. to share His authority. He apparently isn’t stand-off-ish, and apparently He wants to share His authority with those of us who let Him redeem us!
4:4b "Seated on the thrones were 24 elders..."
Who are they? Surprise surprise, it's debated.
Some say it's the leaders of the 12 tribes of Israel along with the 12 apostles, bridging the gap and uniting all God's people.
Some say it's not humans at all, but angelic beings that represent all "tribes" of global humans, interceding for humankind and standing for God's will for them and speaking as representatives for them.
This is a courtroom scene in Heaven, so it makes sense there's a judge ruling and also some sort of counsel serving under the Judge.
Many scholars think the elders are heavenly servants like in Daniel 7 - which is the clearest of all the hyperlinks back to OT, so go read Daniel 7:9-28.
Lots of similarities. Did you catch the courtroom situation? "thousands upon thousands attended (The Judge), the court was seated, and the books were opened" ... AND one of the elders consults/instructs the seer of the vision (Daniel/John) in each of these accounts. In Daniel's account he says he "approached one of those standing there" and got an interpretation for the vision from that heavenly servant. In John's account here in this part of Revelation, we will see in 5:5 that an elder turns and says to John "do not weep! See the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the root of David, has triumphed. He's able to open the scroll and seven seals" which we'll get to later.
So, since Daniel 7 is a courtroom scene, and John is using it as a very close template for this section of Revelation, many Bible scholars conclude that the elders in Rev ARE the heavenly servants from Daniel 7. They're throne attendants.
Here's a quote from Aune's Word Biblical Commentary: "There are two OT passages in which a group of "elders" is depicted as present before Yahweh: 1) Isaiah 24:23 which describes an eschatological event "for the Lord of hosts will reign on Mt Zion and in Jerusalem, AND BEFORE HIS ELDERS HE WILL MANIFEST HIS GLORY." and 2) Exodus 24:9-10, the narrative of the seventy elders who accompanied Moses up to Mt Sinai where they had a vision of God. The author may have derived his conception of 24 elders surrounding the heavenly throne of God from these two passages, or may at least be alluding to them."
Michael Heiser and many other experts consider the elders in Isaiah to be celestial beings (divine counsel), vs the story in Exodus that Aune mentions here which had human elders.
A lot of the early church fathers that wrote revelation commentaries interpreted these elders as human - humans that followed Jesus on earth and died and went to Heaven. But hardly anyone even pretends to know why there are 24. There are just lots of discussions on whether the elders are angels, maybe that represent people groups or certain prominent Biblical leaders, OT figures, or a combo of old and new testament figures like maybe 12 each - like possibly the NT apostles along with the OT patriarchs.
Beale says: "The elders certainly include references to OT and NT saints. They are either angels representing all saints or the heads of the twelve tribes together with the twelve apostles, representing thus all the people of God."
(btw thank you to Michael Heiser's Naked Bible Podcast episode on Revelation 4 part 3 for that quote and for a lot of this info).
Maybe the elders are all of the above, it wouldn’t be the first combo symbology John uses in the book!
4:4c "The elders were dressed in white clothing with crowns of gold on their heads."
We've got some type of righteous beings - maybe human maybe not - wearing white garments and crowns, sitting on thrones. the throne part doesn’t tell us much about who exactly they are, because there are biblical examples of people getting to sit on thrones in heaven, and angels/divine counsel members doing so, like in Daniel 7. The crowns could be more notable here, because crowns are usually given to PEOPLE who overcome in this book. And white robes too, which we learned about several times in the letters in chapters 2-3.
Heiser notes that in Daniel 7, which this whole scene is modeled after, the elders are divine beings. And in Isaiah 24 like I mentioned, the elders are divine beings. furthermore he likes to point out that soon in Rev 6 we will see martyrs that are humans, and John distinguishes them from these elders, which is another indicator that these elders might be divine.
So, we can see why there's lots of debate!
Then, Heiser says something that might blow some people's minds a little:
"... there's no reason that we have to pick... is it the glorified righteous or is it Divine Council members? ... the answer is, yeah. Because we are going to be members of the council... we're not at ultimate glorification [yet] but these two things merge... The NT has this talk of "you're already partakers of the divine nature" - that's a passage in Peter. But yet, we're not yet glorified. we have this "already" aspect and a "not yet." And it's associated with being members in God's heavenly family council... That is what God wanted from the very beginning."
And Heiser goes on to say "we don't really have to opt for one or the other... you're going to have plenty of data for both. Are the 24 elders of Yahweh's council human believers in heaven or celestial members of the heavenly host? In Biblical thought, the question really seems like a moot one because human believers are destined to be glorified and joined to the Divine Council."
We've talked about the elders, now let's talk about the living beast things.
4:6b "In the center, around the throne, were four living creatures....."
These animals are often compared to the seraphim and cherubim in Ezekiel, so we'll look at that, and I've also seen that a lot of commentaries claim they represent all created beasts / all animal creatures.
In addition to that, a lot of commentators started tying in the four gospel accounts.
David Aune: “The four living creatures . . . are based on OT conceptions of the angelic seraphim and cherubim, depicted as located both above and beneath the throne of God. (After the time of Irenaeus, the four creatures came to symbolize the four Gospels and have suggested to some the relative chronological order of each of the Gospels).”
Beale: “Whether or not a zodiacal background is in mind, it is likely that the four figures are designed to be representative of the whole created order of animate life, a view also held by other commentators. . . . "
So let's look at the cherubim and seraphim in Ezekiel. In Jewish mythology, these type of heavenly beings were in their own specific class, sometimes referred to as sacred creatures.
Ezekiel chapter 1:
4 I looked, and I saw a windstorm coming out of the north—an immense cloud with flashing lightning and surrounded by brilliant light. The center of the fire looked like glowing metal,5 and in the fire was what looked like four living creatures. In appearance their form was human,6 but each of them had four faces and four wings. 7 Their legs were straight; their feet were like those of a calf and gleamed like burnished bronze. 8 Under their wings on their four sides they had human hands. All four of them had faces and wings, 9 and the wings of one touched the wings of another. Each one went straight ahead; they did not turn as they moved.
10 Their faces looked like this: Each of the four had the face of a human being, and on the right side each had the face of a lion, and on the left the face of an ox; each also had the face of an eagle. 11 Such were their faces. They each had two wings spreading out upward, each wing touching that of the creature on either side; and each had two other wings covering its body.12 Each one went straight ahead. Wherever the spirit would go, they would go, without turning as they went. 13 The appearance of the living creatures was like burning coals of fire or like torches. Fire moved back and forth among the creatures; it was bright, and lightning flashed out of it. 14 The creatures sped back and forth like flashes of lightning.
15 As I looked at the living creatures, I saw a wheel on the ground beside each creature with its four faces. 16 This was the appearance and structure of the wheels: They sparkled like topaz, and all four looked alike. Each appeared to be made like a wheel intersecting a wheel.17 As they moved, they would go in any one of the four directions the creatures faced; the wheels did not change direction as the creatures went. 18 Their rims were high and awesome, and all four rims were full of eyes all around.
19 When the living creatures moved, the wheels beside them moved; and when the living creatures rose from the ground, the wheels also rose. 20 Wherever the spirit would go, they would go, and the wheels would rise along with them, because the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels. 21 When the creatures moved, they also moved; when the creatures stood still, they also stood still; and when the creatures rose from the ground, the wheels rose along with them, because the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels.
22 Spread out above the heads of the living creatures was what looked something like a vault, sparkling like crystal, and awesome.23 Under the vault their wings were stretched out one toward the other, and each had two wings covering its body. 24 When the creatures moved, I heard the sound of their wings, like the roar of rushing waters, like the voice of the Almighty,[b] like the tumult of an army. When they stood still, they lowered their wings.
25 Then there came a voice from above the vault over their heads as they stood with lowered wings. 26 Above the vault over their heads was what looked like a throne of lapis lazuli, and high above on the throne was a figure like that of a man. 27 I saw that from what appeared to be his waist up he looked like glowing metal, as if full of fire, and that from there down he looked like fire; and brilliant light surrounded him. 28 Like the appearance of a rainbow in the clouds on a rainy day, so was the radiance around him.
This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord. When I saw it, I fell face down, and I heard the voice of one speaking.
Ezekiel 10:
10 I looked, and I saw the likeness of a throne of lapis lazuli above the vault that was over the heads of the cherubim. 2 The Lord said to the man clothed in linen, “Go in among the wheels beneath the cherubim. Fill your hands with burning coals from among the cherubim and scatter them over the city.” And as I watched, he went in.
3 Now the cherubim were standing on the south side of the temple when the man went in, and a cloud filled the inner court. 4 Then the glory of the Lord rose from above the cherubim and moved to the threshold of the temple. The cloud filled the temple, and the court was full of the radiance of the glory of the Lord. 5 The sound of the wings of the cherubim could be heard as far away as the outer court, like the voice of God Almighty[a] when he speaks.
6 When the Lord commanded the man in linen, “Take fire from among the wheels, from among the cherubim,” the man went in and stood beside a wheel. 7 Then one of the cherubim reached out his hand to the fire that was among them. He took up some of it and put it into the hands of the man in linen, who took it and went out. 8 (Under the wings of the cherubim could be seen what looked like human hands.)
9 I looked, and I saw beside the cherubim four wheels, one beside each of the cherubim; the wheels sparkled like topaz. 10 As for their appearance, the four of them looked alike; each was like a wheel intersecting a wheel. 11 As they moved, they would go in any one of the four directions the cherubim faced; the wheels did not turn about[b] as the cherubim went. The cherubim went in whatever direction the head faced, without turning as they went. 12 Their entire bodies, including their backs, their hands and their wings, were completely full of eyes, as were their four wheels. 13 I heard the wheels being called “the whirling wheels.” 14 Each of the cherubim had four faces: One face was that of a cherub, the second the face of a human being, the third the face of a lion, and the fourth the face of an eagle.
15 Then the cherubim rose upward. These were the living creatures I had seen by the Kebar River. 16 When the cherubim moved, the wheels beside them moved; and when the cherubim spread their wings to rise from the ground, the wheels did not leave their side. 17 When the cherubim stood still, they also stood still; and when the cherubim rose, they rose with them, because the spirit of the living creatures was in them.
18 Then the glory of the Lord departed from over the threshold of the temple and stopped above the cherubim. 19 While I watched, the cherubim spread their wings and rose from the ground, and as they went, the wheels went with them. They stopped at the entrance of the east gate of the Lord’s house, and the glory of the God of Israel was above them.
20 These were the living creatures I had seen beneath the God of Israel by the Kebar River,and I realized that they were cherubim. 21 Each had four faces and four wings, and under their wings was what looked like human hands.22 Their faces had the same appearance as those I had seen by the Kebar River. Each one went straight ahead.
Also, just a note, later in Ezekiel 48 there are cherubim that only have two faces - lion and human - instead of four. so their appearance seems rather spiritual and symbolic, just kinda other-realmly and hard to describe.
So they're explicitly called cherubim, and they have a ton of similar traits and a few variations when compared to the cherubim in Rev.
Cherubim (plural for cherub) first show up in the Garden of Eden.
They later play a significant role in the Holy of Holies (the inner court of the tabernacle).
Many think Satan was a cherub before his fall (see Ez 28:14).
So when we read this in Revelation we can take a very educated guess that these are pretty much the same type of cherubim that guarded the tree in eden after humankind sinned, that God rode one in Psalm 18, that were carved on either side of the ark of the covenant, and that Ezekiel saw in his prophetic inaugural OT vision.
They're living creatures that support the throne of God, and magnify His righteousness.
A lot of Biblical scholars feel that cherubim and seraphim are similar and often serve similar roles, the main diff being appearance. but when i looked into what they say the differences are in appearance, it got really confusing and contradicted itself. long story short, the creatures here in Rev could be considered cherubim OR seraphim according to the descriptions and discussions floating around out there. the important thing is, they're all high-ranking angels with wings and wisdom.
And furthermore when you try to dive into the exact meaning of the four faces they're presenting, you run into a lot of conjecture, contradicting ideas, theories, and more than a little jewish talmudic discussions that i'm not an expert it, but it's a fun rabbit trail.
I did like this quote from enduring word commentary:
"it is significant to see that the Bible associates a face with the idea of person (1 Chronicles 12:8; 2 Chronicles 29:6; Isaiah 3:15, 13:8). Here we have singular beings with four faces. Apparently, there are beings that can be more than one person – as our God is One God in three Persons."
4:6c "... [the living beasts] were covered with eyes, in front and in back."
The fact that they're full of eyes indicates a great wisdom and insight, which is of course why they're always worshipping (revering the Lord is the beginning of wisdom).
And it's in our moments of clarity - about how real and how majestic God is, about the reality of heaven and salvation and spiritual victory through Christ - that we are compelled to worship too. And in doing so, we join the ongoing activities of Heaven.
Darrell Johnson says:
"Worship does not begin and end with us - whenever we stop and worship God we're joining a service always already in progress."
Lets read the rest of chapter 4:
The first living creature was like a lion, the second was like an ox, the third had a face like a man, the fourth was like a flying eagle. Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around,even under its wings. Day and night they never stop saying:
“‘Holy, holy, holy
is the Lord God Almighty,’[b]
who was, and is, and is to come.”
Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throne and who lives for ever and ever, 10 the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say:
“You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being.”
There is forever-worship occurring at the throne of God.
Much of their worship song is a throwback to Rev 1:8 where Jesus reveals important aspects of His Lordship:
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come,the Almighty.”
I'll end with this extended quote from Enduring Word commentary:
"There is also an allusion to a practice in the Roman Empire. The Emperor of Rome ruled over many lesser kings, and these kings were at times commanded to come before the Emperor and lay their crowns down before him in homage. Then he would give them back, as a demonstration that their crowns, their right to rule, their victory, came from him. “This is an allusion to the custom of prostrations in the east, and to the homage of petty kings acknowledging the supremacy of the emperor.” (Clarke)
The crowns mentioned in Revelation 4:10 are the stephanos crowns, the crowns of victory, not royalty. These are the crowns of achievement that a winning athlete would receive at the ancient Olympian Games. The twenty-four elders – representing all the redeemed of God – threw every achievement reward they had back to God, because they knew and proclaimed that He was worthy… to receive glory and honor and power.
“Our text says they all cast their crowns before the throne. There are no divided opinions in heaven, no sects and parties, no schisms there. They are all in perfect harmony and sweet accord. What one does, all do. They cast their crowns, without exception, before the throne. Let us begin to practice that unanimity here. "