Devotions with Dre Episode 34: Inner Healing: Marcus Robinson’s Journey with Racial Conciliation Part 1

Dre: We are back with another inner healing testimony. This is my friend, Marcus Robinson, who I've known for a long time.

Marcus: Quite a while. I, I think we met, it might have been, what about 2006, '07, or somewhere in there? I was pastoring a Chinese church out in Hacienda Heights at that time. 


Yes Doing coffee house events, that was really fun.

Dre: and that was in the context I remember meeting you first was just you supporting artists.

Marcus: Mm, yeah, yeah. 


Dre: You pouring in, and, and discipling artists- Yeah ... which is hard to do. So that's how we met, and then over the years, we've just done different ministry stuff together, whether it was a random event here or there, stayed in touch. And then I am part of Marcus's house church. House church ministry, which is called Dream and Imagine. The coffee house used [00:01:00] to be called Dream and Imagine. Yep. Now it has turned into a whole ministry of its own, and Marcus and Kay are leading that. And I get to be a part of it whenever I can.

I haven't seen them in a while, so this is a really good- Yeah ... excuse for me to catch up with them as well as make a podcast. So that's fun. But, Pastor Marcus, tell everyone a little bit about you. Where did you grow up? What's your backstory? Sure. Did you always know God?

Marcus: Sure, yeah. My, my story is a little, you know, a little rough. I always start with, my mother lived in South Central Los Angeles and the Watts District. So if you're familiar with Southern California, um, there's a, a district in South Central, it's called Watts, and she lived in the projects called the Nickerson Garden Projects. 


And if you don't know about the Nickerson Garden Projects, if you ever [00:02:00] see there's a movie called Training Day with Denzel Washington. I'm not advising that you watch that movie. It's, it's not, it's not a good movie. But there's a scene where Denzel Washington got real famous. He was saying, "King Kong has nothing on me," or something, you know, something of that extent. 


And that's the Nickerson Garden Projects, okay? So it's a really bad part of South Central LA. That's where my mom, um, lived. And then my dad, biological dad, um, came out here in the, the late '60s, early '70s, and they were basically fleeing persecution in West Memphis, Arkansas. And we're talking about, like, the civil rights movement in the '60s where, I remember my, my dad would tell me there were times where Black people would just show up or, or just end up missing. You know, some of their friends would just end up missing. Nobody knew what happened to them, and didn't know if they were murdered, if, if they went to jail, and they would never see these people again. 


And it was just a lot of things like that were happening in the South especially. [00:03:00] So they, um, they fled the South and ended up going to, to South Central LA looking for opportunities to work and to, you know, just kind of make a good life for themselves. But those opportunities weren't there. And, um, my biological dad ended up becoming a pimp, a drug dealer, um, a gigolo, and then later on, um, with one of my cousins, a hitman. 


So, he was a man of the streets. My biological mom ended up, becoming a, a drug addict, a prostitute, and from this day, we, we don't know what happened to her. No one, no one's seen her in the past 10 years. We don't know where she is, if she's alive or if she's dead. Shortly after I was born, what ended up happening was they abandoned me and I ended up in three different foster care homes. 


I do remember one of them where, where I was physically abused. Uh, I still have the, the marks from being abused as a [00:04:00] child. So I was a child that was being abused. And it was just like a, a terrible time. I was near- nearly starved to death. When I was three, my biological dad's brother ended up adopting me. 


So, when I got adopted, um, things began to change and, and things got better. And, the, the last foster care home that I lived in was in Pomona. And then, um, my adopted dad, which is my uncle and my aunt, um, they lived in the city of Ontario in, in the Empire. And it... I grew up in a, a biracial family. My, my aunt who adopted me, my adopted mom, she's white and, and my uncle was African American. 


So internally I had like a biracial upbringing, you know. Externally I, I look... For those of you guys who can see me, I look African American. For those of you who can just hear me, I look African American, but, you know, from, from the inside out, I, I've had a biracial [00:05:00] upbringing and, um, I was raised mostly by like white women. 


My mom's friends were mostly white women, Democrats you know, like they're strong. I'm not a Democrat or, or a Republican, but they're, they're, they were Democrats, you know, and, and that was kind of how I was raised. When When I was about three or four, they adopted me. We start going to church, and we attended a mega church in the city of Pomona. 


The reason why we chose that particular church is because we first started going to a Black church, and then the Black people didn't accept my mom 'cause she was white, you know. So it was kinda like this kind of reverse racism, you know. They didn't like the fact that, that my uncle was married to a white woman. 


They didn't want her joining the services, and it's just like we, we had that. So we, we start going to a church that was predominantly white, Evangelical Baptist Church, and, [00:06:00] I remember in the early days there, you know, there was some tension because we were one of the very few, um, interracial families at that church. 


And, for the most part, people treated us, you know, with respect and, and dignity, but there were those exceptions where there, there was some clear racism that took place there. But, um, that was the church I grew up in. So my, my experience, um, was just kind of the, the typical if you know, like, the mega church, kind of seeker-friendly-ish, you know, kind of thing where it's just like, "Let's get as many people into the church building as we can," um, not so much, "Let's disciple these people." 


So this is where my story starts, where it really starts as far as my spiritual walk. It was when I was about 10 years old that there was a guest speaker who came to church. He was a professional football player named Rosey Grier, and he gave, [00:07:00] a gospel presentation or, or I would say, more accurately God's plan for salvation. 


That’s what I would call that. You know, he gave God's plan for salvation as outlined in, in the Book of Romans. And, you know, the typical thing, you know, "If, if you believe this, you know, like Jesus... If you... Do you believe Jesus Christ is Lord?" "Yes." You know I raised my hand. "I do believe Jesus Christ is Lord." 


"Do you, do you believe, um, that he died on the cross for your sins?" "Yes, I believe that." You know? Um, "And if you believe that, say you're sorry for your sins." "I'm sorry for my sins," you know? And then, and, like, if you... You know, "If you said that, you know, say this prayer after me." And he's basically including those, those three elements, you know? 


And, I said the prayer.And he's like, "If you said that prayer, you know, come to the front." And then so I, I go to the front of the church with some other people and, and, you know, according to, you know, traditional Evangelical Christianity, you... I just got saved [00:08:00] But then the, the question was, you know, saved from what? 


You know? Because like here, here's the, here's the deal. Like with my background, being abandoned as a child, being abused, like I was an abused child, not knowing my mother, not having a father, there were a lot of internal issues that were never addressed, talked about, dealt with. And early on I had wounds, you know, s- straight f- from, from Satan himself probably.

But there, there were wounds that went unhealed and unchecked. And even though I believe, you know, I was a sincere believer in Jesus Christ, a sincere Christian trying to follow Jesus Christ, but I was in bondage.

Dre: How common do you think that is?

Marcus: I think that's 90% of American Christians. I [00:09:00] do, too. 


I think it's, it's more, more common than most people think. And, and much of it is, there's this lie that if, you know, the Christian life is basically Jesus saved you from hell. Mm-hmm. And between the point you made your confession of faith and by the time you die, what happens in between that is not really important. 


You just survive all that, you know, get by, and then God saved you from hell, and that's pretty much what the deal is.

Dre: Right. We, we've so emphasized that part that it's like, no, you guys, there's so much more after that. That's just the beginning. Right. That's supposed to be just the beginning. 
And now we walk out the victorious life.

Marcus: So I think what people don't understand is there's a difference between God's plan for salvation and the gospel. Yeah, the, the whole- Those, those are two- ... of the gospel ... the, there's two very... Those are two very different things. Yeah. Jesus never preached God's plan for salvation as [00:10:00] mapped out in Romans Road, which is all every, all these verses out of context. 


You know? It sounds like- It's like people just g- take all these verses out of context and make Romans Road, "This is God's plan for salvation," which there's truth. The, it's true, yeah. God has a plan for salvation, but the, there's a difference between God's plan for salvation and the Kingdom of God. 


So when, when you hear Jesus preaching, he's not preaching God's plan for salvation. He's preaching repent and enter into the Kingdom of God. When you hear Paul preaching, it's the same thing. Repent and enter into the Kingdom of God, or I've preached, you know, repentance, and people, you know, change their, their behaviors. 


And you hear Peter preaching in Acts chapter 2 is like, "This Jesus whom you crucified is Lord and Savior." And, and then there's all these warnings of you know, watch out for the coming wrath. You know, Jesus is coming back, and he's about to blow some stuff up. And if you're not in his kingdom, you're about to get blown up, too.

And, that's what evangelical Christianity in America, they're so afraid of [00:11:00] telling the truth about what Jesus is about to come and do.

Dre: Mm-hmm. Which we're in a Revelation series- So we're about to get into that.

Marcus: Are you? Alright. So it’s just like Jesus, like we, we confuse, you know, a lot of times... I, I joke around, but it's not really funny. But I mean, sometimes we confuse Jesus with Mr. Rogers. Uh, we confuse Jesus with some hippie dude, you know, from Jesus. You know? Like, we confuse Jesus with a lot of things. But when you read the scriptures Jesus is not someone to play with. 


Yeah. You know, you're talking about the master of the universe, not He-Man either. You're talking about the one who created with his words the universe. And he's a righteous king. And he's a right- he, he will, he demands righteousness. But the, the, the great thing about Jesus is when, when he tells us, you know, like when he's preaching this message of repentance and entering into the kingdom of God, um, he grants us the ability to repent. 


Yeah. It's gracious.

Dre: And I mean, I guess I should throw a disclaimer in here maybe that when we talk about, oh, [00:12:00] 90% of North American Christians are saved but still in a level of, of bondage- we're not saying that from a place of higher up than thou. Like, oh, we've figured it out further than these people. 


We're, we're actually saying it from a heart of extremely passionate about this freedom from bondage.. and this deliverance and this fullness and this fruit, spreading, and dedicating both of our lives to discipling people in this process that has been a little under-emphasized in some of the mega church type teachings, but that is very real in the word of God and that is it's a, it's a now word. 


I think more people are, um, in this generation and in this time open to the idea of, "I know I need something powerful." "I know how messed up I am." And going to church once a week and saying a Romans Road prayer in itself is, they know that's not gonna cut it.

Marcus: Yeah. Yeah. 


Dre: They know [00:13:00] that's not where it's at.

Marcus: Well, the thing is people don't know. Well, it's true. 'Cause that's what they're told. Like, the thing, like, I mean, that's, that's what we're told.

Dre: Well, or they're showing up to these churches and they're just getting told that, and where, what, you know- What about my extreme situation? 


Marcus: Right. So that, so that was me. You know, so from the age of 10, um, all the way up until about high school, you know, I'm, I'm going to church every Sunday almost, you know? Um, hearing sermons, going to youth camp, and it, it finally got to the point to where... 'Cause you have to understand, I'm going to church, hearing all these Hallmark kind of sermons, you know? 


And I was like, "I don't live a Hallmark kind of life." And it got to a point to where my, my uncle who adopted me, he started backsliding. He, he started, like, selling crack in the neighborhood, started doing drugs, started drinking, abusive to my, to my mom, a lot of fighting, um, a, a lot of dysfunction. 


We're struggling through poverty. There are times that we can't pay the rent. We don't know if there's gonna be [00:14:00] food in the, in the refrigerator sometimes. I'm dealing with, with these issues that these Hallmark kind of sermons weren't addressing. And then on top of that, it's issues of how come I don't have a father? 


How come I don't have a mom? Dealing with issues of abandonment. Uh, and does, does anyone love me for who I am? And then I started getting this thing where, when, when I was probably about in, in junior high I started playing sports. And I started noticing, I, you know, I'm good at sports. And then that's when I started getting attention from, like, my mom and my dad. 


Like, "Oh, he, he hits home runs. Oh, he's good." So then I started developing this kind of a performance mentality. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You know, like, if I perform well, then I'll be loved and accepted. And I started-

Dre: I, I know that one ...

Marcus: and then started, you know, started believing that, that lie of performance. 


And my value's tied into my performance. My identity is tied into whether I perform [00:15:00] well. And, so there's, there was all these things, like, at work in me. And then dealing with these internal issues and going to church, I finally got to the point to where, like, well, this church stuff is not working. Like, whatever it is... You know, I'm, I'm looking at, like, my dad goes to church, every Sunday, singing in the choir, you know? Um, but then he'll, you know, selling crack all through the week, disappearing, you know, three, four days out of the week, don't know where he's at, mistresses, all that kind of stuff. 


And, and he'll be at the, the mega church singing in the choir, Mr. Popularity, nobody's checking... You know, there's no kind of accountability. And I was like, "Well, whatever that right there is, I don't have anything to do with this stuff." So I started, I started deconstructing my faith. And I was like, I, I don't believe in, in this right here.

Dre: And this is kinda in high school? 


Marcus: Right about junior high, high school. It's like I believe in God, but, whatever this stuff is that [00:16:00] they're talking about at church, I don't believe none of it. Because it's just not... That, that Christianity, whatever that is, it's not potent enough to deal with the issues that I had going on right here. 


And then what really launched me into kind of a downward spiral was I had a friend, his name was Cecil. And, we're friends. We did, like, drama together. And then he ended up getting murdered in, in Ontario. He was shot by, by a gang member trying to break up a fight, you know? 


And I remember going to his funeral. Um, we were both 16 years old. You know, 16 years old, I remember looking in his casket, you know, um, in Pomona, this little small church in Pomona, and I was looking at him, and I was just like... I mean, so this is a, a good guy. Like, why is he dead, you know, 16? 


And how come God couldn't stop that? You know, like, what... Like, I really began to feel [00:17:00] hopeless, like there is no God, and, and then I begin to ask questions about, you know, like Black. What does it mean to be Black in America? And why... 'Cause my friend Cecil was a Black African-American, and what I noticed was many of the Black people that I was around lived in poverty, were addicted to drugs, in and out of jail, didn't have fathers in their house. 


All these issues were associated with Black people, and I started getting this kind of thing where, you know, I, I started having this resentfulness toward God, like, "What have you done for Black people in America?" You know? And then started reading books. You know, I started reading, like, Malcolm X and James Baldwin and some of these people who were very Black militant kind of people, and started reading their books, and I was like, "Yeah, you know, what has God done for Black people," you know, "for all of America?" 


We're slaves, and God didn't help us. You know, civil rights, God didn't help us. You know, people were getting persecuted and, and treated poorly in the United States, by so-called Christian, you know, like, [00:18:00] people. It... And so it- it's like I, I'm definitely double- doubling down on my anti-Christianity, you know, because what has God done for Black people? 


Dre: So now Christianity's getting tied in with whiteness- Yes ... in, in your mind.

Marcus: Yeah, with white supremacy. With white supremacy. And the crazy thing, like I said, my mom is white. So it was just like, it's, it's... there's all these, like, conflicting things going on, but in, in my mind and heart, I was like, this is the white man's religion, okay? 


And, I don't really wanna have anything to do with that, you know. I believe there's a God, but I don't... you know, He must not wanna have anything to do with us. So, I was 16 years old. The same summer, same year that my friend got murdered, I was playing varsity baseball and a coach, invited me to his house, me and some other guys. 


And, he tricked us, he was like, "We're gonna go to the house and we're gonna, we're gonna watch the [00:19:00] Dodgers, we're gonna eat pizza, then we're gonna go to the batting cages." So I was like, "Cool, sounds good to me." So we went to his house, we, we ate pizza, watched the Dodgers, went to the batting cages, and then he was like, "Oh, by the way, my church is having, like, a prayer meeting. 


Do you guys want to come?" And I was like, "Oh, hell no." You know? Like, 'cause I've, I've already made up my mind about church and what all that was. And then, this particular, uh, coach ended up playing for the San Francisco Giants, and, and my dream at that time was I wanna play pro baseball, so I'm gonna try to get in good with him. 


So I was like, "Hey, I'll go to church with you," and ended up going. Ended up going to church.

Dre: For, like, the wrong reason

Marcus: For all the, every wrong reason Just to suck up to, like, a coach. Every wrong reason. Go to this church, it's like a charismatic church, and I grew up in a, like, a Baptist church, like Southern Baptist, kinda cessationalist-ish ... very conservative. And, and never never mentioned the Holy Spirit or any of that kind of thing. Very, you know, just traditional. And I go to this church, it's multicultural. The [00:20:00] church I grew up in was, like, pretty much all white, and this church is multicultural. 


It's a storefront church in Chino. Um, it was called the Turning Point Church in Chino. And, it was up in this, shopping center, the second floor was the church, and just probably a couple hundred people might have been there. And the pastor was like, "Everyone come up to the front. Come up to the front and, um, get into small groups and start praying for each other." 


It was a prayer meeting. So I was like, "Okay, now we're getting weird," you know? So I was like, "I'll walk home," you know? You know, I have no problem walking home. So I started going toward the door and, um, this old lady stops me. I can't even... Like, I couldn't pull her out of a crowd if I saw her right now, but I just remember it was an old lady and she's like, "God, God sent me to pray for you. 


Can I pray for you?" And, you know, I didn't wanna hurt her feelings or be rude, so I was like, "Sure." You know, so I, I s- I stood there and put my hands up and she began to pray. And- She started speaking, now I know she was speaking in tongues, and I had never heard of speaking in tongues. I was like, "Oh, she [00:21:00] speaks Arabic." 


You know, this girl , you know, she got some, uh, some language skill. You know, she was speaking in tongues and some weird language. I started feeling physically uncomfortable, and, I heard a voice say, "Just receive it. Just receive it." And, um, and I'm, I'm like trying to avoid her eyes thinking that she's, like, gonna hypnotize me. 


I, I just felt very uncomfortable. I was like, "Man, she, yeah, this lady's weird." And, I fell to the ground, and when I fell to the ground, my eyes were closed, and all I could see was just white light, just white light and I thought she killed me. You know, 'cause I saw... I've watched, you know, those near-death experiences where you go to the white light. It's over, you know? And I was like, "Oh, dang, she killed me," you know? And, and I was on the floor, and, and I felt this warm kind of presence and this bright light, and I knew that was God for some reason. Something in me just kn- I just knew that's, it's God. 


And I was like, "I'm in trouble 'cause I'm, you know, I'm a sinner." You know, I, I definitely had made some [00:22:00] decisions and have done some things, um, that were sinful, but I felt this presence. But the presence was, it was kinda like revealing my sin, but not, not condemning me of sin. It was weird. It was like it w- like I was very much aware of my sinfulness and the, um, the purity of this light, but there wasn't any, like, condemnation toward me as I was on the ground. 


It was, it was very weird and fascinating. They said I was out for about 15 minutes, and I got up and went to the coach, said, "What the hell was that?" And he said, "That was Holy Spirit." I was like, "What is the Holy Spirit?" He was like... They're laughing like it's a joke, you know? And I'm like, I'm like, "No, I'm serious. “

What the hell just happened right there? I don't believe in all the spooky stuff, you know, people falling out and, I didn't grow up charismatic. So I-

Dre: Yeah, I didn't fall over on purpose.

Marcus: It just happened… you guys need to explain to me what the hell just happened right there, because, you know, did you, did, did she hypnotize me? Or [00:23:00] what, what are these lights and stuff? I didn't believe in the supernatural or anything. That wasn't a part of my worldview. And, um, so I went home, and I remember I went home, my mom looked at me. 


She said, "Did you see a ghost or something? You look like you just saw a ghost." And I probably, I literally just, I had the Holy Ghost. Yeah. I went to my, my room and started reading the Bible, and I read from Matthew all the way into Revelation, and it took me about, about three or four days to get through the, the entire New Testament, and when I started getting to Acts, you know, like, I'm like, "Oh, that what happened with Paul. 
That's what happened." And 1 John, like, "God is light. In him, there is no darkness." Started looking at that, and I was like, "That's what I experienced." And it was, it was at that moment, that I started realizing that whatever that power was, that light was, that's what's gonna heal the darkness in my heart. 


That, so that was the [00:24:00] beginning of my healing journey right there, understanding that there is a power, a God, who is able to heal the brokenness of my heart. And so what ended up happening was I didn't even notice, notice that this happened right away, but, when I was younger, I had asthma. 


You know, my parents were, my mom was on drugs, so, you know, I had, you know, health problems. And, there were a few times I almost died from, from asthma. And when that lady prayed for me, I didn't know, but I realized later that I got healed from asthma. Never ha- haven't had it since. You know, just got healed. 


Dre: I think my asthma's gone too. Mm-hmm. And I was, like, in the hospital for it a lot as a kid.

Marcus: Yeah, the same, same here. Yeah. So, so something happened, and then this, this hunger to know God, to know who, who's this Go- who is this person or this being wrapped in light, that met me at that storefront church, who is that? 


And so much of my, my [00:25:00] pursuit for God started at that, that moment, and much of my healing came just indirectly. You know? I didn't, I didn't know I was supposed to get healed from stuff. I didn't know about demons. I probably had all kinds of demons, you know? Like if I told my full story, there's, there was a, a season in, in my life where I got into a lot of fights, was getting in trouble at school, you know, beat up teachers, threw locks at teach- you know, just stuff, you know, just things I was just acting out because of the pain and because of the, the wound. 


And, the Lord slowly but surely, a- as I began to, to seek Him and, and, and study about Him and His Word, those things began to heal. You know? It was, it was as I repented. 'Cause, 'cause I think repentance is not this transactional thing. You say one little prayer of repentance, and that's it. But repentance is the pursuit of Jesus Christ. 


Dre: Yeah.

Marcus: So as I began to pursue Jesus with all my heart, mind, soul, and strength, [00:26:00] I began to feel the refreshing of the Holy Spirit. Mm-hmm. And, and that refreshing came in the form of internal healing, you know, inner healing. And a lot of the wounds from my childhood were, were soothed. And they didn't hurt as much. 


I didn't, you know, there, there, you know, before there's any little trigger point, any- somebody say the wrong thing, um, it would trigger me to respond out of anger or violence or something like that. Right. And, and a lot... And, and the other part of my healing was art. You know, I, I started doing a lot of, you know, one of, one of my high school teachers says, "If you don't find a positive outlet for all that anger," 'cause he, he, he heard about me throwing a lock at a, at a teacher and getting suspended and, and all that. 


He's like, "If you don't find out a way to positively channel that anger, you're gonna end up in jail." So he's like, "I want you at, at lunchtime, if you're, if you're not doing something, to stay out trouble, you come into this art studio [00:27:00] and you just paint, or do ceramics or, or, you know, just do art." And I would go there at lunchtime, after school. 


He was my art teacher and, and then, um, they ended up putting me in, in AP studio art. Um, when I was in high school, I traveled around the United States, doing art contests and competitions and stuff, and, and he was, um, one of the, you know, just a very good supporter and mentor in that. 


Dre: Do you know if he was a Christian or not?

Marcus: He, I believe he his, his name is, uh, Mr. Wescott, Michael Wescott, but he, he passed away. Um, but he, he was really one who, um, just kind of took me under, you know, his wing, and he's like, "Look, this is something that will help," you know, like just indirectly, like, "This is gonna help soothe- You know, what's going on in your heart? 


And, and he was a Vietnam vet, you know, so he, I think he knew a little bit of something about, like, post-traumatic stress syndrome. That, that was something that I, I struggled with. The [00:28:00] impact of, of that post-traumatic stress is I have, I have a really bad short-term memory. 


Even right now, like it's, it's better. Like, I think a lot of that's been healed, but even now, like sometimes I'll forget, like, something very simple like my phone number.

Dre: Same. You know, like- Or like- ...

Marcus: what's your phone number? It's like, uh- ...

Dre: someone's name that I definitely should know ... like, like, I know it, you know? 


Marcus: Yeah. And, or, yeah, or even like I obviously know my mom's name, you know, but it's just like that's part of the, the impact of having post-traumatic stress syndrome, where, um, my, my short-term memory is, is sometimes just, it, I just, I'll just go blank, you know? 


And, I think art kind of healed that 'cause it, it was much worse, um, when I was in college, my undergrad years in college. Um, now it's, it's mild. You know, there are times where, you know, people, like, you don't know his name? You know his name. You know, and it's just, you know, there are times where, where, um, I'll, I'll be a bit forgetful, [00:29:00] but much of that was healed, I think, just by the power of the Holy Spirit and, and through natural means. 


Um, I, I think these are just kind of gifts of God's common grace, the arts, um, that really help soothe a lot of the wounds. And music, I play the saxophone, and, I worship. I just, I'll take my horn and just worship, and those things really help me to, to heal, you know, what was broken inside. 


But the, the main thing, the biggest struggle was the identity thing, the Black thing, you know, going back to that. And, um, and I think it was more recently when I got the biggest breakthrough with that.

Dre: Thank you everyone for listening to part one. Tune in next weekend to hear the conclusion of my interview with Marcus. 


God bless.