Devotions with Dre Episode 41: Inner Healing: Conquering Worry with Kim Hamilton

Dre: Normally I don't do this, but let's open with a prayer really quick.

God, thank you so much for my mom. She's incredible. And of course, everyone that knows her knows that. So I pray you'd speak through us in this podcast. I pray it reaches the people that it's supposed to reach. And I pray that the topics of conversation would be whatever you lead us and want us to talk about. I pray your blessings on her and on my whole family and on my podcast family to just everyone who's listening. I know it's their desire to grow closer to you, and I pray that you would highlight your word to them and guide them and be real to them in their lives today, wherever this finds them, we pray these things in Jesus name. Amen.

Okay, mom, tell everyone a little bit about your background story. Of course, your name is Kim Hamilton. You were born in Altus, Oklahoma. And then you moved right to Arkansas.

Kim: Actually, my mom went to visit her family, and I was I was seven weeks early. And so I was born in Altus, Oklahoma, close to where her family lives.

Dre: Oh, that's why you were born in Oklahoma? Okay.

Kim: I lived in several states, Michigan. My dad was in the Air Force, so I lived in Texas, I think when I was real small. And then I lived in Oklahoma again while my dad was in Alaska for a little while without his family. And then we lived in Michigan. And then he retired from the Air Force, went back to seminary, went and finished college, a little bit of college that he had to finish seminary and then became a pastor.

Dre: Wow. So how old were you when your dad became a pastor?

Kim: Second. Third grade. So nine or ten.

Dre: Nice. And you have a brother and a sister? Yes. And a very sweet mom that we lost recently. Then you met my dad at some point and that was in high school.

Kim: Well, I met him in junior high school, but we started dating on and off in high school.

Dre: And then what happened?

Dre: Well, then we got married. Went to college, got married, had a baby. I dropped out of college. Your dad finished college, and then we moved to Texas.

Dre: And then you moved to Baton Rouge (where I was born). So would you say you are born and raised Christian?

Kim: Yes, very much so. Surrounded by Christian.
Dre: Got it. So even before daddy was a pastor, he was a Christian.

Kim: Yes.

Dre: And nanny was a Christian?

Kim: Yes. And most of the family. It was very Christian oriented

Dre: Bible belt - and when did it become real to you? Like, do you feel like you had a time in your life where it you made it personal.

Kim: Well, I think I've always been a sensitive person, so when I was around six, I made a decision to accept Christ. And I said the little prayer they told you to say, and I got baptized. I think it was real to me. As real as it's going to be for like a child, a young child. And I think it was real to me as a young child. And then I think through my teenage years, it wasn't that real.

I didn't pay that much attention. I put that on the back burner and did what I wanted to do, pretty much not anything crazy, but I didn't really listen to God that much. Probably listened when I needed something or, you know, went back to it when I was having a problem but didn't walk the walk every day by any means. At that point when I was in college, I just started seeing the immaturity and the silliness and I needed a deeper faith and a deeper, deeper walk.

And I needed to mature. And I knew that in a lot of ways. So I think that's when I probably took it much more seriously.

Dre: What did that look like for you? Just spending more one on one time with the Lord…

Kim: Yeah, and just making decisions more prayerfully.

Dre: Yeah. And then you're married with two young kids like bam! Right after that. So you need God because that's stressful.

Kim: Having a child, to me was a very spiritual moment, I think. I knew I don't want to be alone and do this by myself. I am a human being and I am fatally flawed and I need the Lord. And you just feel a great maternal instinct. You feel like you need help to be the kind of parent you want to be. So I think I took that very seriously. And because I was young, I was pretty young and not so much when I had you because I was twenty seven, but I was twenty two when I had Justin.

Back in the day, that wasn't all that young for people. But you know, now that would be considered very young.

Dre: Do you feel like being a preacher's kid changed your faith in any way or your faith walk?

Kim: Well, I think I got to see a lot of godly people, and I got to hear a lot about God. My dad's family was very musical. So I think that's where you might get your musical DNA from. They weren't trained, but a lot of them, just by ear, learned to play instruments. They all sang and had good voices and harmonized, and singing was a big part of their life.

But I mean, I think I was I was surrounded by people that tried to seek God. Some of them were maybe a little dogmatic or over the edge. I probably didn't realize that as a young person, but for the most part, just a lot of godly people that loved God and loved their family. So I had a pretty good childhood. I didn't have a childhood like some people do, where there's a lot of trauma or a lot of sadness or broken homes or… mine was pretty normal. It was pretty at the time. When you're going through it, you don't realize that. But after getting older and meeting people and hearing people's stories, I was like, man, I was really blessed. And I had it very easy compared to many people, so many, so many people.

Dre: And for the podcast listeners, my mom and I just did a book club. We read the same book together and talked about it, and it's called Hurt and Healed by the church. And it's a survivor of a cult called Independent fundamental Baptist, IFB - and he's still a Christian, but he had to sort out every twisted religious thing you can think of. And his dad called himself a pastor, but was, you know, an abusive person in a lot of ways - a pedophile, you know, acted hateful to his family, all a lot of things. And so that's like a that's a wolf in sheep's clothing. That's not a pastor.

But then you think about daddy Bill, your dad, and it's like, no, he meant what he, he meant it. He like was a good person.

Kim: Well, there's a lot of different kinds of Baptists. This one (IFB) tended to be cult like. It tended to be abusive. Certainly my dad was just a godly man who loved the Lord. He loved his seek the Lord and help people seek the Lord.

Dre: And it was just regular old Southern Baptist, which is a huge denomination

Kim: …but he was just a preacher at small churches, you know, usually rural. He taught seminary extension courses in the area that he lived. He was a chaplain for the National Guard because he was retired Air Force. He was very humble and he was very compassionate, and he was very full of grace. So he didn't judge people and a totally different experience than this young man went through totally.

Dre: So it was crazy to read about. And so many people have had to really deconstruct and reconstruct because of abuse in the church. So we've been talking a lot about that lately. So what what would you say is like one positive and one negative experience in your church history life?

Kim: Well, I think with like anything, there were negative people that you come across and you can't let that shatter your faith. Even like this young man that wrote the story about his father and all he had to come away from and reconsider and get right in his life, like mainly grace and not all these rules that he was made to follow. And you see people that are godly and they inspire you. And then you see people who are not very kind and legalistic.

When I was younger, that made me kind of want to go away and not be a part of a church. Like I wanted to be a part of having Christ in my life, but I wasn't sure I wanted to be real big into a church. But I had to get over that because we do need together to worship and we are all flawed, and I'm not perfect, so we need to gather together corporately and worship the Lord. I think it's an important thing to do. I'm not saying you have to do it so many times a week or be all legalistic about it, but it's part of your walk and it's important.

And you may go through seasons where you step away for a little while and rest or recoup, but I don't I don't think it's the way of life you're supposed to like, never be involved in a church family. And I'm sad for people that have walked away and been so hurt that they're not able to ever get back to that because there's so many good churches and there's so many good people, and there's a blessing that's involved in gathering together and worshiping together and caring for one another.

Dre: And even if that's in a house with a few Christians, that's fine. It doesn't have to be something mega churchy.

Kim: Do what works for you. Everyone's experience. And I think that for me, I probably was kind of rules based, you know, just because that made me feel safe. But as I've grown as a Christian, I'm like, I want to follow Christ and I want to listen to him and read his word. But all of our experiences have been different. And we're all in a different season. I think I've learned a lot about just showing more grace, giving people more time. Also maybe not trying to. I used to, I think feel like I had to. I had to get people to Christ. Like I had to, I had to share that. I had to make them know what it was like.

And now I'm just like, I'm not the Holy Spirit. I can try to walk with Christ. I can try to shine a light. I can tell people what it means to me. And I know that for me, it's the way to go. It changes my life. It transforms my heart. It makes me a better person. It is the anchor to my soul. Absolutely. But I can't force it on anyone. I can't make them believe it. I can't open their eyes to see - only Christ Jesus can do that through the Holy Spirit. So I think I've learned to just settle down about it and not feel a guilt trip.

Also, to just kind of understand people where they are and be more patient or more graceful. Not saying I always do that, but I think that's where after sixty seven years of living, I'm heading that direction.

Dre: So mom, what are your spiritual gifts?

Kim: I think the gift of helps hospitality and sometimes I think discernment. But I'm I'm kind of confused about that at times.

Dre: It's a confusing topic.

Kim: It is, it is, it is.

Dre: I think you have helped so much.

Kim: Yeah, maybe too much.

Dre: ha! So if someone has the gift of gift of helps, how do they know they have that and what does it look like?

Kim: I don't know that you automatically know you have it, but everyone else knows you have it. They come to you because they know you'll help them. Basically. As you know, I'm surrounded by type A. My family is all very type A, very driven, and I'm not like that. I'm like completely opposite of every member of my family, my immediate family of, you know, my children and my husband. So yeah, the gift of helps is it can be tricky because it can be abused. You got to learn to set boundaries, but you do have a great desire to help people, and you will usually go out of your way to help someone because that's just in your makeup, in your personality, and that's the gift that God has given you. I think my dad had that gift, and I think I followed after him in a lot of ways.

Dre: You ran a charity.Started it in twenty ten.

Kim: Yes. Yeah, for ten years. And then when I was on a board to a charity for a while and just recently retired from that. So yeah, I ran a charity and I started that after you guys were grown and after you went through your illness, you kind of pointed me to some people that needed help. And I think we just realized there's a lot of people that are just falling through the cracks. And it was starting out as more of like single women who were struggling. But we also helped some single single dads and some widows.

And yeah, we, we helped people get what they needed to get and get to a place they needed to get if they needed to have some counseling, have some help with some bills, have some help with some medical payments, have some help getting the right kind of foods they needed.

Dre: Or figuring out housing or. Yeah.

Kim: Yeah. Those kind of things. And it's, uh. I mean, it's a drop in the bucket. So many people are in dire situations, but we were called to do that for a time. And it was it was difficult at times, but it was fulfilling. And I did it mainly. But dad helped fund it and helped make decisions on the some of the financial. And we did sometimes have friends who donated, but mostly we kept it as a family charity.

Dre: What is your favorite Bible story?

Kim: I got a lot of stories I like for different reasons and for different times and situations. But I think the story of blind Bartimaeus, for some reason, that story just resonates with me. And I a lot of times I pray just like he did. I feel like I understand when he was in the crowd and he knew that Jesus the Messiah was coming, and he was like, Lord Jesus, have mercy on me.

He knew that Jesus was the Messiah. And he cried out to Jesus because he needed mercy. And Jesus asked him. He said, what is it you want from me? And I always find that so interesting because it was obvious - he was blind. Everybody knew he was a blind beggar, and he told Jesus specifically what he wanted. So that story just resonates with me and my prayer life. When I'm praying for my family, I just relate to that story and it's one of my favorites.

Dre: Well, I figured, should we read it real quick?

Kim: Yeah. Let's do.

Dre: Okay. It is Mark ten, starting in verse forty six. They came to Jericho, and as Jesus was leaving Jericho with his disciples and a great crowd, Bartimaeus, a blind beggar, the son of Timaeus, was sitting by the roadside. And when he heard that it was Jesus of Nazareth, he began to cry out and say, Jesus, son of David, meaning, I know you're the Messiah. Have mercy on me. And many rebuked him, telling him to be silent. But he cried out all the more, Son of David, have mercy on me. And Jesus stopped and said, call him. And they called the blind man, saying to him, take heart. Get up. He's calling you. And throwing off his cloak, he sprang up and came to Jesus. And Jesus said to him, what do you want me to do for you? And the blind man said to him, Rabbi, let me recover my sight. And Jesus said to him, go your way. Your faith has made you well. And immediately he recovered his sight and followed him, followed Jesus on the way.

I don't know when this story started resonating for you. Like, when did that start popping off the page at you? Was it like a certain time in your life?

Kim: Probably for the last eight or ten years? I start probably a write in a journal, and I would say at least once or twice a week. I start my prayer with those words, have mercy on my family, and then just all the things I'm praying about. And it just I don't know why that story just resonates with me.

Dre: And I think part of it is like He wants us to ask. “He already knows what I need” you've heard people say that. It's like he's teaching everyone who's watching to ask specifically and seek and knock and all that. This is like a good example. And I also just like that they're exemplifying the down and out person and saying, be like him. He had nothing in this world.

Kim: No. But he knew that he, he knew that he could be healed and he was going to cry out and make a, make a fool of himself if he needed to. And I really think sometimes we just have to humble ourselves and cry out to God. And really, when you were home sick those nine months, ten months that you came back to Kansas, I would just be doing tasks around the house. I wasn't particularly thinking of this story. I think maybe God gave that that story is special to me after that. But I can remember not knowing what words to pray and just saying, God have mercy, God have mercy. I'll just be cleaning the kitchen or I'd be, you know, whatever I was doing. And I'd be devastated of how to pray. And I would just say that.

So maybe that's why that story resonates with me so much.

Dre: Yeah. Because you've had to be in that spot… I don't know much, but I know you're the savior and you're like our only hope, you know?

Kim: Yeah.

Dre: And then the other story, similar in some ways. Well, you were telling me earlier today your other favorite Bible story. One of them is the woman who had the issue of blood. She had a bleeding disease for twelve years and she was another outcast of society. So that's in Luke. Here it is, Luke eight, verse forty three.

There was a woman who had a discharge of blood for twelve years, and though she had spent all her living on physicians, she could not be healed by anyone. (Sounds like a bad case of endometriosis or something. I don't know). She came up behind him, Jesus, and touched touch the fringe of his garment, and immediately her discharge of blood ceased. And Jesus said, who was that that touched me? When all denied it, Peter said, master, the crowds surround you. The crowds are pressing in on you. But Jesus said, someone touched me, for I perceive that power has gone out of me. And when the woman saw that she was not hidden, she came trembling and falling down before him declared in the presence of all the people why she had touched him, and how she had been immediately healed. And he said to her, daughter, your faith has made you well. Go in peace.

Kim: Yeah, I just that one I just when I think of people that are struggling, I just pray specifically that they'd be able to figuratively reach out and touch the hem of his garment and just have that kind of faith, have that kind of seeking, have that kind of perseverance. I don't know, I just think about the woman, and I think I really relate to her and what she was going through. And … just the power that can come from Jesus. The power that you need to heal, to heal you.

Dre: Yeah. Yeah. I think chronic illness patients read that and they're like, um, yeah, I've spent a lot of money on doctors that couldn't heal me too. And, you know, the only thing has got to be the Lord.

Kim: Well, and you. And, you know, it's not for her. It was immediate. She touched the hem of his garment and his power went out. And he knew that his didn't. He knew that she had touched. And he knew that the power had gone out. And then he wanted to see her face. And it's just it's a sweet story. And it might can be discouraging for someone because they're like, well, she went and touched his garment. And I've been trying to do that for all these many years. And it hadn't happened for me. But I think you just keep seeking that you keep seeking.

Dre: I think that's the best posture, the best heart posture we can have.

Kim: But certainly when I'm praying for somebody, whether they know I'm praying that for them or not specifically, I'm praying that for them that they'll be able to get the healing they need, but they all seek it and they'll be able to touch. And I know it's in a different way. He's not walking on the earth where we can go grab his coat. But I don't know, that story just resonates with me

Dre: …and I like how it says she realized she was seen. So she had this plan of just quietly approaching Jesus, getting healing, and then slinking away because she could get in trouble for, you know, doing this. She was like unclean or whatever, ceremonially. So it's cool that Jesus was like, no, no, I want to know who you are. And I want to look at you and I want to teach you what you've been through and what I'm using it for because your faith has made you well.

Let me explain a little bit more of what just happened, and let me let you know that you actually are known. You're not a faceless… You're not a part of a just random crowd. I'm not just walking by you and you remaining unnoticed. Know you are known. You are now known. And that's like cool too, because each one of us ultimately has to find our identity in, and our worth in how Jesus sees us.

Kim: Yeah. And I think maybe for some people that this story could be a little bit of a struggle if they're struggling with getting their health back, because it, it might not be, you know, a moment like that where they're instantly healed. But I still think it's a special story and I still think it's a… maybe for me, I need something, an example of how to pray for people. And I need something concrete like that. I need a word picture, I think. And that word picture helps me to pray for people. Yeah. Maybe that's why it's special. Sometimes I don't even know why I like the story so much.

Dre: Yeah, those are good ones. Really, really powerful. So what is one of the biggest things that God has healed you from?

Kim: Um, well, I've always been a huge worrier. I think it comes from just my mom tended to worry a lot. I think people who have the gift of helps sometimes worry more than other top personalities. I had aunts that seemed like they worried a lot and fussed a lot over things. And so I think it's just intrinsic in my personality, in my family line. I think I tend to worry a lot. I see things that are, you know, I have compassion for and I don't know how to fix. And I wish I could fix or I want to help or. But I don't really know how. I think God has…. I'm not going to say that I'm healed of it, because it's probably something I have to work on all the time. But for myself, I think I am learning to just give that over to the Lord and let it be his. Let him carry my burdens.

I think it's probably going to be something I have to do all of my life, but I think that I am at a better place with with that.

Dre: Yeah. I mean, you were saying earlier, it's not that you don't worry anymore. It's that you know how to respond to it better most of the time. And I think I inherited that. I think it is part of our family line for whatever reason. I mean, I literally had an OCD diagnosis at one point. So obviously the worry was going. But yeah, I think it's, it's not a matter of healing doesn't always look like the thing being completely gone. But the thing is disarmed when you learn to navigate it with the Lord and not partner with fear, you know? Like what is what are some things that you've learned about that?

Kim: Well, I think every day you spend time with the Lord and you give him your worries. And I write in a journal because that helps me. I like to write and it's my way to express. It's my way to counsel. It's my way to write down verses or stories or even worries and just give it to God. And I think it helps. It's not a miracle every day that, oh, I never worry again. And sometimes there's reasons you're concerned, but it can also take away your joy and your peace. So you've got to learn how to lay that down and, and give it to God.

And you know, mine is worry for other people. It might be something else. You know, anxiety and worry are closely related. I don't think mine is an anxiety as much as just I tend to worry a lot. I tend to want to fix things that are broken and I can't always do that. And so I think after so many years of working on it, I think I'm at a better place.

Dre: And it almost is like when I got so sick, it was like it came to a head because you were either gonna die of worry or figure out how to get through this. And I saw you really turning to God and being honest with Him. It wasn't like you were happy with the situation or that it was easy watching your daughter be sick. But you went to the Lord with honest feelings. I think you processed with Him like he's your best friend.

Kim: Yeah. You can't go around just sweeping everything under the rug or acting like everything's great when it's not. And I mean, I would say if you have a few close friends that you could ask to pray. Like if you have a couple of prayer warriors in your life, that's a real blessing. And I do - not a huge group or anything, but I have a few people I trust and they, they will pray and they care. I think if you can do that, if you have something big that you're not handling, I think being honest with God is okay. And even when you read the Bible stories, there was discourse. There was, um, I don't want to say arguments and I don't want to say we should argue with God, but I'm just saying there was honest feelings and venting in the Bible.

So I think God can handle that. I think you've got to be honest about your feelings and kind of get that out before you can get to a better place, but you can't camp there. If you camp there, then you're going to you're going to start getting angry at God. You're going to start taking matters into your own hands. You're gonna start going to other things to get calming or peace. So I think being honest with God is fine. And then I think you move on from there and you realize you don't understand all things.

We live in a broken world. We don't understand all things and everything that we would like to have all rectified in this fancy little package is not always going to be that for us.

Dre: It's tolerating that imperfection and that brokenness in the world.

Kim: And I would say probably as a young person, I mean, I thought everything was a fairy tale because I lived a pretty I didn't have a lot of trauma. And I lived a pretty good life. Certainly we were not… the Lord provided, But we didn't have riches by any means. But we had what we needed and we had love. And, you know, I got married and I had children and I liked being a mom. And I liked all the homey things that that was my personality. And I was a homemaker. And, you know, I liked cooking and taking care of people. So that wasn't like a stretch for me. It was it fit my personality. But I think I did kind of have sort of a fairy tale feeling that life and I've tried to tell my grandkids this, I don't know if I told you and Justin this when y'all were growing up, but life is hard and it's not always easy, and we're going to grow more and have better character when we've gone through hard things, we're going to understand other people who go through hard things. We're going to have more empathy.

This idea that, oh, you're going to have Christ in your life is going to be easy. That is really not that's not the way it is. So It's an abundant life, but it's not always easy. And I think now I'm probably more accepting of this is what it is, and I can pray about it. And it may never be fixed until eternity.

Dre: And you care about people so much that when someone's making a wrong choice, or when someone's suffering or when someone is in need, there's always something to surrender to God. And I think that's great advice.

Kim: And really about the time you conquer, one thing that you're working on, something else will probably crop up. If you really try to examine your heart every day, you think, oh, I'm a, I'm a helpful person, I worry, I care, you know, I pray for people. And then you start getting that under control and something else crops up that you realize, I really need to work on this.

Dre: yeah

Kim: … being more graceful, being more kind, standing up for myself more. That might be one that the gift of helps sometimes has to do. That's a hard, it's not easy for us. God might even be telling us to do that at times.

So when you were going through your sickness, I told one of my friends, I said, I just feel I'm starting to get disconnected. I'm struggling and I'm feeling disconnected because it was going on for a while and I didn't see a light at the end of the tunnel anywhere near. I mean, we were trying to rearrange our life thinking, what if? What if it never gets better?

So at the time, her church had a healing prayer women's ministry. And so I went and just had them pray for me. And it was very special because, what they did was just let me be honest, what I was there for and what I was struggling with. And then they just one of them was the scribe, and one of them was more the prayer leader. And she just led me in prayer. And she just wrote down some of the thoughts that God gave me or the verses that God gave me. And then at the end they read them to me.

And that was a very that was helpful to me. It was enough for me to get over the the hump. And because I would go lay in the closet and I would cry. I would just be so heartbroken. And then I would go walk around in a cemetery. Sometimes - I don't know why. And then it was a hard, hard time.

Dre: And a few times I knew you were going to the cemetery

Kim: …over there to pray and think and try to, and I would go down to this. I always called it a pond. Your dad said, it's not a pond. It's a it's a creek, something like that. Whatever.

I would walk, go on a walk, and I'd go down there. I can remember one day going to the store and just screaming, screaming the whole way. And what I was screaming was not very nice. I won't get into that. And then when I got home, I had no voice left.

Dre: I know I was like, mom, why is your voice hoarse? and you're like hesitated…

Kim: but I just I was yelling in my car. It was just a very, very hard time.

Dre: Yeah. It was. I went outside at three a m and cried out in the backyard one time, but then you guys heard me and came out there and it was a lot.

Kim: Yeah. And I would dream I would have this dream in about every two or three nights. I would dream that you were a baby and you were crying, but I couldn't find you. So my baby's crying. And I'm looking everywhere. Under covers, under under beds, under sofas, whatever. Outside. But I can't find my baby to help her quit crying. So, I mean, it was just it was a stressful time for our family, but I think I grew through that. I

Dre: think I did too. I think he did help us even when we were like, why aren't you helping? He was helping. Yeah. You know?

Kim: Yeah. And that's what I would say to people if someone's listening and they just feel like giving up, God will not give up on you, but keep holding on, keep holding on. Don't quit. You got to keep holding on because he's he's going to hold on to you. But it's your choice. You can turn your back. You can get angry at God because your life isn't going the way you want it to. Or you can dig in and say, I'm going to grow. I'm going to get closer to God. And that's your choice. I mean, if you if you camp out in the grief and the anger and why is this happening to me, that can be a really bad place

Dre: that can become a stronghold.

Kim: Satan uses that to really get you back to me off course and thinking you're a victim.

And I guess another thing, when we started the charity, we realized there were so many people out there that had no family support, that had nowhere to turn. Some people can get some help in other ways, but some are just falling through the cracks and they don't know what to do and they don't know how to how to get there. And so I think we realized we think we're going through something hard. This is nothing compared to what so many people are going…

Dre: that’ll reframe it real fast for you.

Kim: Yeah. And I, I think of that every day now, but you can get pretty - I mean, we're Americans. What can I say? We we have it easy. We have it pretty easy. But we can think we have it hard even when we don't. We don't get up every day and struggle like, where is our next meal coming from?

Or, you know, how are we going to get water for our child or medicine if they get sick? So I think now your dad and I, when we pray, I think we, I just I think we realize how blessed we are and we, we feel ashamed when we complain… we feel rather ashamed about that.

Dre: Well, I think another cool thing that came out of that season was, I don't know if you would look at it at the exact same way I moved when I was eighteen, I moved far. I didn't want to be here. And yeah, I was very hard to get along with. In some ways. I was very I was a teenager.

Kim: You were very driven. You were very. I don't know, you just you wanted adventure. You wanted to do certain things and and you needed to conquer a lot of things. Yeah

Dre: yeah. And I wanted accomplishment because I didn't know who I was in Christ yet. And yes, God was in it when I moved to California. And that was totally his will. But it was also me just distancing myself from people here and kind of you guys. I mean, we didn't always get along, you and me, we had our plenty of moments. Maybe more than, you know, some.

Kim: When I tell people that they don't believe it and I'm like, well, you, you you don't know. I'm like, no…

Dre: we we didn't know how to get along there for a while. And I think one of the most beautiful things that happened. Obviously, I'm grateful for my physical healing that eventually happened, but before that, I think we had a healing that happened. And part of that is because when we were asking the Lord for help, like both of us were in our separate ways, I had been on the phone with a mentor, Jill, and she had asked if I've ever read the book Bondage Breaker by Neil T Anderson. And I was like, oh, I should read that. And I and then I went to bed.

I walk up here the next morning, which was always a challenge. You're sitting at that desk and you go, morning. Have you ever read The Bondage Breaker? And I was like, no, but maybe I should, because Jill just told me that last night and you said, I just ordered two copies for us.

And so when those got here, we read it together. That was like our first book club ever.

Kim: I love one on one book clubs with people. That's a fun thing.

Kim: And we would sit there and do a chapter a week and talk about what the enemy was trying to do and what God was trying to do, and what we were learning about how all that works, and generational stuff and psychology stuff, and through that and through just having to fight this thing together, our relationship was healed. Not that it was ever dramatically terrible. I mean, I knew you were always there for me and we just had trouble. Like

Kim: we just didn't always understand where the other person was coming from. And sometimes I tried to fit you in a mold and you didn't want to be in that mold. And I shouldn't have tried to fit you in that mold.

Dre: And my response was not a respectful no. It was like a dramatic, horrible response. So then it would just go round and round from there. A lot of that's just my my age…

Kim: and being a different personality, being kind of scrappy and sassy, wanting a different life than what I had had. And I, you know, moms and daughters, not the easiest relationship. You got to work at it. It's complicated. So

Dre: but like, ever since then, I feel like we are pretty dang close. Y

Kim: eah. And I'm thankful for that. I'm just thankful I have a relationship with my children. I'm very thankful for that.

Dre: Yeah. I'm amazed that God has allowed me to have this family of origin and have this longevity with all of you three, and now the extended family from there.

Kim: Well, and now that my mom's gone, I mean, you realize, I think I realized, but not fully just what having a mom, a good mom in your life is like. And I miss her. You know, miss talking to her. And even I missed the annoying things. Yeah. So. But I know, I think you're right. I think when you go through tough times with people and you both look to the Lord, you become closer.

Dre: It was like, not me against you. It was me and you against the real enemy. And that became so clear. Nothing. All those petty arguments we had before didn't matter anymore, right? So talk about a reframe. That was a big reframe. So I think that's beautiful. I'm very, very grateful God used that time in that way, even though it was rocky at first.

Kim: Yeah. And we we had a lot of time together.

Dre: Oh my gosh. Yeah.

Kim: Well, and he brought, I mean, we were in Houston, he brought us back to Kansas. I'm so thankful. I had no idea what was, what was in store for me at the time. I was just so grateful to get back to Kansas because I was like missing my home, because this is where we raised our children and we felt like was home. And then, you know, eventually a few years later, we started having grandkids. But yeah, I thought, oh, wow, God is so good to bring us home. But I had no idea what we were going to be navigating the next year of our lives and, and to be able to navigate it here was so much more… Well, you have friends. Yes, we know our way around Houston is not that easy to get around in.

Dre: it was easier to get to the hospital.

Kim; I had some super sweet friends that I met while I was there, but it just it wasn't the same as being home in your own territory close to your sister. Your mom. Yeah, that was a blessing during the storm. And dad got a better job to make up for the provision needed when I was sick in the hospital bills and random doctors.

Dre: Yeah, he took a new job, and he thought he might need to do that for a lot of reasons. With your health. And then it still turned out to be a blessing. You know, he had to travel some, but that was okay. He's always had to travel. So that's not the issue in our household usually.

Dre: I remember what the prayer ladies wrote you. Well, you came home and told me about it

Kim: and I kept it. And I still have it. I just, don't know where it's at.

Dre: Well, one of them was the head and not the tail. Speaking about me. Right. Or was it?

Kim: ;Yeah, they were saying that. And I'm like, I don't understand what all that's about. And I came home and read Deuteronomy, and I still don't fully understand it, but I think they were just going to you were going to be a leader because you were going to follow the Lord, and he was going to use this to help other people. And they didn't even know you or anything about you.

Dre: He was active. I mean, gosh, that whole time teaching us many, many things, I would have dreams. And I knew they were spiritual and I'd listen to things and be like learning all this stuff about our identity. That was a big one for me.

When I got sick, it was 2009, I was like in my mid twenties. And I feel like what he taught me, because I was in the basement a lot here, and I was trying to like listen to like messages because my eyes would shake. Like when I read, I was more listening and I had these CDs because it was a long time ago and we had CDs back then, and it was all about identity. Your birthright as a daughter of God. Identity is the beginning of authority. Like that's what he was teaching me. It was just like, you need to find your identity in Me alone, which is easier when you have nothing really else going for you.

Kim: Well, and you probably your identity was wrapped up in the music. And I mean, it's easy for any of us to get our identity mixed up. Even being a mom or grandma, you can you can get mixed up in thinking that your whole identity, that's just a small part of your life that God has given you to do - a small job. That's not your identity. Your identity is in Him. So, I mean, no matter what you do, whether you're, if you're a famous musician, whether you're some kind of amazing business person, whether you run a charity and you do a great job trying to help people and you get them home so they're not homeless, if that becomes your identity, you're going to be sorely disappointed.

And I think that and this is totally off the subject, but I think that's maybe what's happening in the church now is we're our identity is starting to be in what our church is like or what our, what our famous talk was about or, you know, it's, it's become celebrity like, like the world. And no matter what you do, when that comes crashing down, you realize, oh, I don't have that anymore. That wasn't my identity. If it was, then it's gone and I got to build a whole new one.

Dre: Yeah. I'm glad he straightened me out on some of that, because now I'm free. I don't have to, like, strive to be somebody.

Kim: Right. And I think a lot of people my age, we get to that point. We're like, yeah, none of that matters anymore. But when we were in our twenties or thirties or 40s, it did matter. A lot of that mattered. It mattered what everyone thought of us. Now we're just - don't think he care that much. I think if you're walking close to Christ, you care what he thinks, and you don't worry too much about what anyone else thinks.

Dre: That's the way to live right there.

Kim: You want to be a good representative of him, and you feel very repentant when you don't live up to that. And that happens to all of us. But yeah, you just what man thinks of you is so not important. It's a freedom to have that, for sure.

Dre: What would you tell someone who can relate to being a worrywart? If someone came to you and said, Kim Hamilton, please coach me, I'm getting stuck on worry. What are some tips? I mean, you already said hang out with God every day. Journal. Get a core small group of prayer warriors around you and friends. Is there anything else? Are those main things?

Kim: Those are the main things. For myself, I got into kind of a worry after you got better. I still worried about you and you were gone. And I couldn't see you every day. And then when Micah (Kim’s grandson/Dre;s nephew) was born and he had a diagnosis when he was about five. I was I worried about him and I went and got Christian counseling and we prayed through it. And I saw a vision of Jesus holding a lamb and standing beside the rocker. And I was rocking you as a baby. And then I saw a vision of Micah in the garage holding a butterfly. And it was a day that I had taken a photo of him. I saw that same picture in my mind, his little blue eyes and the butterfly, and he's just holding it. It's like one of my favorite pictures.

But I saw that in my mind. And Jesus was standing there holding a lamb. And then I saw Jesus, and he was holding me. And I never knew what that I mean, it was comforting. It was very comforting. I was crying, I was like, wow, I don't know what he's telling me, but I know he's holding me. I know he's holding me. And it felt exhausting and it felt like he had shown me something special, but I didn't understand it fully for years.

And now I think I understand it. And I think your walk and Micah's walk…. it's not my walk to worry about. It's to pray for you and, you know, help you as I can. But the Lord is your shepherd and the Lord is my shepherd, and He'll hold us.

But that's our choice. So I think that's what that meant to me. But yeah, journaling, counseling, prayer warriors, somebody you can talk to. But mainly if you don't have anybody you can talk to about it because sometimes you don't. The Lord is always there.

Dre: Talk to God. Yeah. There's going to be moments in your life where you feel like you can't talk to anybody, whether it's about a certain thing or you're just stuck in the airport or whatever it is. But you can always talk to God. That's what he's like a best friend closer than a brother.

So you were in counseling when you saw that vision?

Kim: Yeah.

Dre: Wow. That's cool.

Kim: She was just praying through with me and kind of like the healing prayer type stuff. It never has that ever happened to me. I don't know if it ever will again, but for that day, that's what God gave me and I and I understood. And she said, when when you see God Christ holding you, how does that make you feel? And I said, it makes me feel safe. And he's stroking my hair. And I don't know if you remember this, but when you were sick, I would just lay in the bed and stroke your hair. And so God was Jesus Christ was stroking my hair. He was taking care of me because he's the great Shepherd. And and he will take care of you and he will take care of Micah. We're all going to have our battles, but we can have Christ as our Shepherd.

But that's a that's a decision that you have to make. I can't make it for you. That's a decision I can't make for anybody but myself. So I think that was very meaningful to me. It's been a huge, just a huge blessing in my life when I think about it.

And there's so many things that the Lord has done. I mean, when my mom passed away and I was there with her, I felt a spiritual presence in the room taking her to go. I don't know, I don't understand that fully.

Dre: Well, you saw.

Kim: Yeah, I did.

Dre: You saw flickers of flashes

Kim: …and I didn't understand. Maybe some people would be like, you're just you're kind of crazy. But I have tasted and seen that the Lord is good. And even in the hard times, and even when I was fighting it and I was not understanding it, I don't think I would change it.

I don't know. I might change where you could eat - you could eat more things without such a hard battle on that. But a lot of it, I don't think I'd change, because I think it's made us more reliant and trusting in the Lord, and I wouldn't change that.

Dre: Well said.

Kim: So I think another thing I think about a lot, and I thought about a lot when I didn't have the words to pray for you. It says “likewise, the spirit helps us in our weakness, for we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.” And so I just - sometimes you just don't have the words, but Jesus Christ is interceding for you with groanings, and he searches your heart, and he knows the mind of the spirit, and he intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

So I would just say, if you don't have the words, He has the words and He'll do it for you. So just seek that out and let him be who he is for you.

Dre: It's pretty cool that he's praying for us.

Kim: Mhm. That's pretty cool. It's amazing.

Dre: God. Thank You for all the wisdom in this conversation. We know Your heart is mercy and you're our help in time of need. And you are our Shepherd. And you care so gently and gingerly for us. So kindly for us. These are all the gifts my mom carries and it represents you. You're the compassionate and loving God who is our parent and who comforts us and guides us and helps us and lifts us and carries us and holds us in all these hard seasons through life, in all these ways. So we intercede right now for any listener who is hurting and we pray for them. Place Your hand on them, God, and show them how You're involved, how you care. Let this story of ours be an example to them of a testimony that this is the kind of God that they have, that You are a loving Father and you're near. You're near. You're so near to the brokenhearted. I pray You bless my mom and thank you for her and continue to serve your people through the huge heart that she has. Pray these things in Jesus name. Amen.

Kim: Love you.

Dre: Love you.