Devotions with Dre Episode 37: Inner Healing: When Childhood Trauma Meets Spiritual Warfare, with Kay Robinson (Part 2)

Dre: [00:00:00] Welcome back to Devotions with Dre. You are about to listen to part two of my conversation with Kay Robinson. We talk all about the inner healing process that she's experienced in her life. So if you have not heard part one, go back to last week's episode and start there. The Lord has delivered her from alcoholism and depression, so whether you can relate to those specific issues or not, I know you're gonna relate to the experience of falling in love with Jesus and realizing the power that's available through His love. 


So let's jump into part two. 


Dre: Do you have a favorite Bible verse or a favorite Bible story? 


Kay: I think it, it really depends on my season, and right now I'm really enjoying James, about rejoicing and suffering. And it was interesting because it's like, well, suffering, the, the ultimate, the ultimate reason-- I'm dyslexic, so it's really hard for me to memorize things, but the gist of it - ultimately it's so that you will be complete and [00:01:00] perfect and not lacking in anything. 


And I was like, "Oh, I like that." I like that, this idea of persevering and being steadfast through suffering so that I won't lack in anything later. Like, that's such a, that's such a cool idea, as opposed to being like-... "Oh, God just wants me to be more patient." You know how people are like, "Don't pray for patience or he'll, like- 


you know, bring annoying people your way." But it's, it's not even about that. It's just... 'Cause suffering's gonna come, right? It's inevitable. If you're a follower of Christ, suffering is gonna come because He's going to sanctify you. But what is the end to that? The end is completion, and I really, really struggle with this idea of, like, liking perfection, so I like it. 


It's like, I'll take it. 


Dre: Yeah. 
To be completed, to be more fully a l- far along in your, in being built up- Yeah ... in who you are, and yeah. I think that's cool. I love that. I love James. It's cool 'cause later he revisits that topic [00:02:00] and he's like, "Do you see how the farmer waits for the rain?" 
There's stuff in the ground h- that he's just tiny little planted in there, and no one can even see it. 
And I always picture this, like, confident farmer that's like, "I know what's coming." 
I know what's coming. Like, it's not like, "Oh, I hope there's rain. Oh, I hope that I have a crop." 
It's like, "No, I've, I've seen how this works." 


Kay: Mm-mm-mm, mm-mm. 


Dre: And it- that, to me, that's like James, 'cause he's the half-brother of Jesus, and he was around it, and he saw how this is the Lord that can take literally anything and breathe goodness on it and, and br- bring fruit out of it and- 


Kay: Yeah, like the hot mess that were his disciples. 


Dre: The book of James is super good. 
Well, I don't know if you wanna do this question. Do you want to? 


Kay: Which one? 


Dre: Describe one positive and one negative church experience. 


Kay: Oh. 


Dre: Is that feel like... Or should we move on to something else? 


Kay: No, there are so [00:03:00] many negative church experiences. 


Dre: haaa

Kay: You know, it's interesting because I am married to a Black man - I see things that I've never seen before. So Marcus was, for a long time, called to immigrant Asian churches, and shamefully Asians can be very, very blatantly racist. And I knew that going in. It would still be pretty upsetting, you know, that w- it would be within the context of the church. 


But then I noticed that I wasn't as disappointed in that as some other churches that claim to be multicultural. 'Cause at that point it feels like they're pissing on your face and telling you it's rain. 


Dre: Right. 


Kay: Like, we're so multicultural, we're really, like... And then you notice that all the minority pastors are, they're never promoted, they're never, you know, [00:04:00] elevated, they're never given a... 


They're, you know what I mean? And then- Yes, 


Dre: I do. 


Kay: Yeah. And then, like, the... Anyway, I don't have to go into the other side of what that looks like. But it started to really grieve my soul to the place where I, I developed a little bit of a bitterness. And I was complaining to God about that. And it's so funny because God doesn't com- He didn't, he's not, like, saying, "You're right, they're wrong." 


Even if they are, he always deals with my heart. So, you know, I had to repent of self-pity. And I was like, oh my gosh, how hard is it to constantly deal with this as an... I can't even imagine being an African American person dealing with this constantly and to still have your firm sense of self in Christ, right? 


And to deny all self-pity. And to be like, "I am a son of the, you know, I am a child of the living God." Like, that's- that's [00:05:00] work. I think that was the first time I started empathizing with that and how much work that is in America and just being disappointed in church and stuff like that. 


But then I had to let all of that go because ultimately for God, it's like He didn't call me into a church to be the justice warrior. It's not my job to go in and say, "You're doing this wrong. You're doing this wrong. You're doing..." My job is to go in and minister to whoever it is that He wants me to minister to. 


The greater justice, that's up to Him. How He's dealing with all of that for the church as a whole or individual hearts, 'cause a lot of, a lot of times people don't even realize that that's what they're doing, right? Like, I would say that's a negative experience. 


Dre: Mm-hmm. 


Kay: But it's a... I, and I asked Marcus about this before. 


I was like, "Why do you think they do it?" And, uh, Marcus said, "Well, Satan loves to attack the church, and what he's gonna go for is low-hanging fruit." So if you [00:06:00] have any kind of, you know, like racism in your heart or, 'cause a lot of what churches struggle with is, like, race and finances- right? 


Dre: Two big topics, for sure. 


Kay: That's low-hanging fruits for Satan. 


Dre: Yeah, makes sense. 


Kay: Yeah. It's like, "Oh, you guys struggle with this? Let's- let me exacerbate that- 


Dre: Mm-hmm ... 


Kay: and cause people to stumble because of those things." And so when I started to, like, see it in a different perspective, you know, I think it changed my heart to try to pray for the church more in that as- and not even in that aspect, just, like, to bless and to- to help me do whatever it is that I'm called to do. 
 


A positive: I was, I was out of the church for so long, and I think having a Christian community is so precious. And- and I can't say that it's an institution, like, uh, experience with the church with this. I- uh, my experience with that is, like, the- the capital C church, like when you meet other brothers and [00:07:00] sisters in Christ and you journey together with them. 


Like, the level of edification, the level of uplifting, the level of blessing one another really just outpaces anything that the world can give you. 


Dre: Yeah. 


Kay: Just there's no comparing. Yeah. 


Dre: It makes sense 'cause that experience, when it's genuine and healthy, is what we're supposed to be living, and it is so life-giving. 


Makes sense that the enemy would try so hard to mess with that and-and use church people to harm Christians. Yeah. 'Cause then there's, like, a double whammy happening, you know?

What would you tell someone who's like, "Hey, Pastor Kay, I am struggling with bitterness at things that have happened in the church"? 


Kay: So what I learned about that is that bitterness is an act of vengeance, and if you try to enact vengeance upon somebody else yourself, [00:08:00] you are actually withholding God's vengeance, meaning as long as you're bitter, God can't step in there for you. He's not going to take vengeance for you to right that wrong because you are still trying to do it on your own. 


And, and that's the thing, we weren't called to do that. That's not our job. 


But we think bitterness does something, if we don't hold onto this, then they get away with it scot-free or whatever it is. Let me just tell you, God is big. He is everywhere. He sees everything. 


If He comes at you, he's gonna come at all angles. Do you know what I mean? Like, would you rather have somebody like that dealing with, you know, your-

Dre: Yeah, a powerful judge that sees everything- 
and has the power to- .

Kay: Yeah, or, or just you just brooding at home, right? seriously, like what are you doing? I do think, like the moment that I repented of my... 'Cause it is you know, feeling like a [00:09:00] victim and self-pity. The moment I, I repented of self-pity, I kid you not, it was as if I was holding back the blessings that God had for me, because immediately I started getting hit with blessings again. 


And, and it was me. I was holding that back because I couldn't forgive. 


Dre: So it's almost like when we hold something, it feels like justice or it gives us some sort of sense of agency -when a wrong has been done- against us or maybe we've observed, but in actuality we can't hold that. We weren't made to hold that. 


We're not the judge. So it's just gonna hurt us. And I mean, this is the type of topic that has a high chance of hitting people different ways, and I'm not out here trying to offend anyone, especially people who have been hurt in the church. I mean, that, that's like a big thing on my heart that I always think about, always pray about, have experienced myself and, and, and seen many times. 


And when we talk about bitterness, I think [00:10:00] of all the bad messaging out there that may be popping into people's head about just cheap and instant forgiveness for really severe things that almost being encouraged to, like, completely bypass the process of, like, healing and grieving and processing, you know? 


Like, "No, you just make sure you're not bitter." Like, and it's, like, the day after someone got, like, severely... A crime happened against them or something ... you know, like, inappropriately fast. So I guess to clarify for anyone who maybe this is helpful, I hope, it's not that we're saying you can't be sad or hurt or come to God with what happened or want justice. 


Those things are fine. What we're saying is when we start to well up in ourselves as our own judge and jury instead of surrendering to God as the judge, and sometimes that can [00:11:00] be a while, but we want our heart posture to be willing to submit to him about what happened. And the more severe it is, the longer the process might take. 


So I don't know. Those things are just important to say, 'cause I feel like... I just feel like there's a risk of this hitting wrong. 


Kay: Well, I, I think God is the ultimate healer, right? And because He is such a whole, He is so whole in himself, the closer you draw to him, your brokennesses start becoming more whole. 


The whole point is to draw closer. That's your job. That's what we're meant to do To hold bitterness and anger is taking on a position or a job that we were not meant to do. And what that does is it doesn't allow for you to have more healing. You cannot heal that way. You can only [00:12:00] heal as you draw closer to Christ, but for Christ it's a stipulation. 
You need to forgive. 


Dre: Yeah. 


Kay: Right? Like, sometimes people forget that so- it's like straight obedience. You just have to obey. I am married. I get raging angry at my husband. You know what I mean? I'll be doing the dishes, and then all of a s- You know, like, he'll be, like, making me really mad. And I'll be like, "You're lucky I love Jesus, you know, 'cause I have to forgive you." 


Yeah. And it's... But then, the, the, the attitude is more like, "Because I love Jesus I have to forgive. I don't know what that's gonna look like in terms of my healing process and, like, different things like that. I don't know." 


Dre: Yeah. " 


Kay: But I have to obey." 


Dre: Yeah. " 


Kay: So what I'm gonna do, Lord, is I'ma give it to you. 


I'm gonna tell you that you take vengeance" And it's so funny because Marcus will leave the door, and then, like, he'll come back, like, zapped by God. Like, "God told me to be nice to you." And I was like, "That's right." You know? But, like- 


Dre: Thank you, Lord, for [00:13:00] taking that

Kay: Yeah, but, you know, like, I think sometimes we over-coddle our own feelings and our own processes and our own needs before we obey. 


Dre: Mm-hmm 


Kay: And I think, but with what God can do for us is that when we step out in faith and obey, He will take us through the process. 


Dre: Yes. So it's a heart posture ... more than like, "Oh, I have to fast-forward to where I have no emotions about this anymore." It's like, "No, no, no. Wait, wait, wait, wait." 


Kay: Yeah. No, no, no. 


You can have the emotions. Just give it to God. 


Dre: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Like, for me, I've had times where I've kinda bypassed myself because I'm trying to be good. 


So for me, like, I'm like, "Well, I don't wanna be a victim and I don't wanna have bitterness and I don't wanna be offended or operate in offense, so I'm gonna just try really hard to, like, white-knuckle this, like not think about it, not be mad, not..."[00:14:00] 


And it was almost like I didn't let myself even get it out first, like I could, I could have done a better job of, like, going to therapy or praying or r- journaling or processing or going on a walk or just, like, acknowledging even what happened and why it was wrong before I get to the next step of like, "I'm okay. 


I'm okay. I'm okay. I'm okay." You know? Like- it's almost like, like, I mean, I didn't even remember some things that happened to me when I was young until, like, college. Cause I'm very good at, like, denial. 


Kay: Yeah. 


Dre: So my brain, I mean, everyone's brain does that with certain things, but, my personality does it too. 
So that's part of it too. I would almost shame myself for having a sense of justice, and the truth is, no, the sense of justice is good. 


Kay: Mm. 


Dre: That's not bitterness. That's - certain things should make you mad. It's called righteous anger. Like, when horrible things happen in the name of God, in, or in the church or something- [00:15:00] even just, like, in a family that's supposed to be a family, like, of course that's absolutely not okay, and I think a lot of us with, like, a strong sense of justice, we're gonna feel that righteous indignation happen sometimes at the injustice in the world, but that isn't bitterness. So it takes wisdom and it takes discernment to be like, "Well, what is really happening in my heart and what is God calling me to do in prayer and in my life to stay healthy with these things?" 
'Cause I think I grew up with a really strong message of instant forgiveness. 


I do wanna live a life of forgiveness. I don't wanna hold onto anything. I'm, I'm not about that. But for me, it was almost like an anxiety ...

Kay: I never- Like, oh, I gotta forgive right now 
Like, my, my family struggled and suffered from bitterness. They held onto everything. So like instant, like easy forgiveness and let it gloss over, that's such a [00:16:00] new... 


Dre: It's a very, I think, churchy thing. 


Kay: Yeah. Like, yeah. I think, yeah. 'Cause I was like, I, I don't think I've ever struggled with having to be the good girl, you know? 


Dre: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 


Kay: That would be really hard. 


Dre: Yeah. 


It's weird how the enemy can twist different things different directions- Yeah ... for different people. But when we walk in, like, the wisdom of God, he'll make it clear. Like, "No, this is what you're dealing with." 
This is what I want you to do," so. 


What's another big thing God's healed you from? It sounds like you don't really have depression anymore. 


Kay: Yeah. That's, I, I think that's been amazing. The biggest thing I think that God has healed me from is my belief, my foundational belief that I was broken, and I built my entire life on the, on this belief that I was broken. 


So I needed to constantly make myself better,- I can do better. I can be better. I can strive for more. And I was constantly, like, reinventing [00:17:00] myself and doing different things like that, and people would be like, "Oh my gosh, you're doing s- you're, like, amazing because you're always, like, growing and learning and stuff." 


But, at the bottom of all of that was, um, this, this broken person because I had been sexually assaulted as a child, and the belief system that the enemy embedded in me is like, "That happened to me because there's something wrong with me." And so that was such a difficult thing, I think, all of my life that I struggled with. 


I think that was the reason why I became an alcoholic and different, because I didn't wanna deal with any, any of those things, especially when the assault happens from somebody that, like, you're, that's not supposed to happen with, right? And then you can't talk about it or you can't really do anything about it. 


And it was interesting because God promised that He would help, He would heal me, and it's a... And [00:18:00] all my life I would try to, like, read books and do things and, you know, get, try to get inner healing, all this kind of stuff. But the moment He said, "I will heal you," I let it go, and then I just started to worship. 


So for like a whole year, I developed a prayer life. I developed spiritual disciplines to just draw closer to Christ. I wasn't dealing with my brokenness anymore. I wasn't even thinking about the, the topic that I needed healing from. And what I tell everybody when they're looking for healing, you need to develop a prayer life, because God will meet you in the closet. 


But if you're not putting yourself in a position for Him to be able to heal you, you're not gonna get it. And so I developed a habit of, um, praying in my prayer closet, and it was just out of the blue one day where He, He told me... 'Cause there was this, like, this thing where the very clear memory where I was terrified as a kid looking to the left because I knew who was [00:19:00] there. 


Like, I was like locked into that moment as a child. Like, you know, it's like in my head. That's the, that's the thing that comes up that's, like, terrifying, right? And, I got that. I was in that room again. I can see that dresser again. I was, like, in that bed again. And I felt like God said, "Look to your left." 


And it was so terrifying. And I looked over, and it was Jesus. And I was like, " Oh, you were here. You were here the whole time, and I'm gonna be okay." And then I was free. This whole, like, a lifetime of pain Just gone. And I know that it happened because all I did was take the time to get closer to Jesus, and when you get closer to Jesus, you can't help but be whole because He's whole. 


You can't help but [00:20:00] be healed because He's healer. It's not about trying to make yourself better or to get healing for that thing, it's about drawing closer to Christ. 


Dre: Yeah. And that I can relate to. 


Kay: Yeah. 


Dre: Just surviving abuse as a kid, and then this lifelong interaction with shame, just like, "I'm broken. 
I'm not enough. I, my, I was, something was wrong with me. I must have brought this on my..." All that stuff, 'cause it's, as a kid, that's just how your brain thinks- Yeah ... 'cause everything's about you- 'cause you're not developed yet to be able to conceive this 'cause you're not supposed to be experiencing it. 
Basically, the same thing happened for me in that process of like, yes, for years I was in striving and like workaholism, for sure. 


Kay: Yeah. 


Dre: And had identity issues- and questions. And if we were to like tell someone in their 20s who's dealing with that how we are free of it now- 


Kay: Mm-hmm ... 


Dre: for me it would just be like, you gotta hang out with Jesus. 


Kay: Yes.

Dre: Like, you [00:21:00] gotta worship, you gotta fall on your feet and worship Jesus i, i- as part of your life, ongoing intimacy with God. And that's more than just going to church, and that's more than just saying you're a Christian. Like- 


Kay: Yeah ... 


Dre: that's being in a best friendship with God and talking and listening-

Kay: Yes 


Dre: and reading, having community to bounce off of. And in those moments, sometimes it's unexpected, the Holy Spirit will deal with these 
parts of your heart. That's what I would tell someone. What, what are your thoughts on that?

Kay: Oh, absolutely. Um- You know, when you're a kid and something like that happens to you, as a child, you are literally not able to h- hold the adults accountable because you are built to love them 'cause they're your survival. 


So then anything that happens to you as a kid, you're gonna internalize it as it being your fault. [00:22:00] So instead of hating them, you start hating yourself. 


Dre: Yeah. 


Kay: And that's so hard to purge out of your system and to get out of your sense of identity until you're given a new identity. 


Dre: Yeah. 


Kay: And the only way that you can get a new identity is to be with the identity giver, right? The one that knows who you are, the one who made you, the one who's been with you. So you just have to draw closer. What, what you said is absolutely true. There's nothing I tell people more than you need to draw near to Jesus. 


Start getting a habit of worship. Get, start having a habit of prayer. Start having a habit of don't just do, like, random car pray. Whenever I'm in the car, I pray. I pray all the time. Like, but when people say that they pray all the time, they don't have a prayer life. 


Dre: Yeah. 


Kay: You know? 


Dre: My life is a prayer. 


Yeah. 


Dre: Okay, and- Yeah ... you should probably set aside some time. 


Kay: Time. Yeah. Yeah, you know, to... Because when, when God showed up to Peter, he, he was in his [00:23:00] regular prayer time. Like, God shows up to your regular prayer time. 


Dre: That's good. 


Kay: So have a regular prayer time. And put yourself, and this is what Marcus says, which I love. 
He said, "Spiritual disciplines are about placing yourself to receive God's love." Strategically placing yourself to be able to receive God's love, and oftentimes we don't place ourselves to be able to get His blessing or to get His love or to get His word because we're doing everything else but. 
And if anybody who's ever been in a relationship knows that relationships are work. 


Dre: Mm-hmm. 


Kay: And that's not legalism. 


Dre: No. 


Kay: You know? It's just the work that you put in to cultivate a beautiful relationship. 


Dre: It's guarding against the erosion of, 


Kay: like- Yes ...

Dre: life getting too busy and too distracting. 


Kay: Mm-hmm. 


Dre: I think that's a good word. Yeah. Thanks, Kay.

Kay: Thank you.

Dre: Thank you so much for listening to Devotions with Dre. If you are not subscribed, make [00:24:00] sure you hit subscribe in whatever podcast app you are listening to this episode in. And also, I would love for you to leave a review or a comment. 


Those things help get the word out so more people can learn about God's inner healing power that's available to us. God bless. See you next week