Devotions with Dre Episode 39: From Saved to SURRENDERED with David Hamilton

Dre: Welcome back to our Inner Healing series. I have a really special interview today. This is my dad, David Hamilton, and he's been a Christian for a long time, and he has a lot of wisdom that he has shared with me over the years. So I figured I would share the love, and talk to him about a few things that he's learned from God along the way.

So I just pray that this conversation blesses you, helps you, disciples you, and just helps you feel less alone on your journey. So it's an inner healing conversation, but it's also just, I think it's going to be a conversation about maturity in Christ and growing closer to God over the long run.

Dre: Okay, so dad, tell us about yourself. Where did you grow up? Tell us about your family. Tell us about your career.

David: All right. Well, you can probably tell by my accent that I'm a southern boy. Born in Oklahoma, raised in Northwest Arkansas, and pretty well spent all my life there until I graduated college. My family was a good core family. Good people, very good people. We weren't Christian, but we weren't atheist or agnostic or anything like that.

My mother had just started taking us to church and I was about ten years old. Sadly, she hurt her back and went in for an operation. And in those days, nineteen sixty eight, you know, they didn't have you wired up like we are now. So she got a she had a blood clot and she passed away. But what I learned from that, the pastor was so good. He visited us many, many times after she died. So I felt like my mom had just really come to Christ and was trying to introduce the family.

It was several years after that, probably when I was about seventeen, that I finally got serious about Christ. I started dating a lady - who I married.

Dre: My mom.

David: your Mom. Her daddy was a preacher, so I was going to church there and he. He spoke - I don't think he remembers how many times he preached about peace, but that was the hook that Jesus used for me is, I just wanted to be. I just wanted to have peace. I don't know that I was a, you know, disturbed, but I wanted that peace. And so I turned to Christ for that at about seventeen years old, and a few years after that, I had the privilege of speaking to my father. And what you know, then my stepmother, my dad remarried.

I just had this burden. And I know God put it on my heart to go and talk to them and, um, not to go through the whole conversation, but, you know, I started out if you die tonight, were you going to heaven or hell? My dad said I'd go to hell. And I'm like, wow, dad, that doesn't have to be that way. And, they weren't saved that evening. But I got a call. I was in college and I got a call the following Saturday or Sunday, I can't remember. This was the previous was a Sunday right after church when I just knew I had to do that. Uh, and they told me that they had gone to church. Oh, it was a Sunday. They told me they'd gone to church and given their life to Christ.

Dre: So was this a week later?

David: A week later, Yeah.

Dre: Wow.

David> Yeah. And then I thought, well, I must be pretty good at this, so I'm gonna go try that with my grandparents. This was my mother's parents. You know, my mom who had died, and that didn't go well, I think I don't think that was Holy Spirit led, but it was Holy Spirit used. And in the years to come before they passed, they also came to Christ.

So I come from a Christian home, but it wasn't a Christian home…

Dre: until after you got saved.

David: Well, yeah, I mean, I think that's true. Now, I found out that my great grandmother, my grandfather, my paternal grandfather's mom the day that I spoke to my grandparents, we ended up going to her house and I think she had nine children and eight of them were there. You realize I'm twenty. My grandfather's probably sixty five. She's eighty five or ninety. She's blind. Barely gets around us. We called her Big Granny. She wasn't as big as a button, but we called her Big Granny. And my grandfather told her that he thought maybe I was going to be a preacher because I'd been talking to him. And I'll never forget she. My name is Paul. David. And she goes, Paul, David, are you saved? And I said, yes, ma'am, I am. And she goes, I've been trying to get all my kids saved all my life. I mean, she just and she just kind of went at them. She, she let them have it.

And I just so I, you know, I just learned that the Holy Spirit can use many, many things. So yeah, that's, that's me growing up.

Dre: Yeah. I think it's notable that because of mom and her parents, you're brought into the faith. And then you have this reverse generational effect where God uses you to straighten out a lot of people in your family. That's awesome.

David: My little sister…says that I brought her to Jesus as well.

Dre: Jeannie.

David: Yeah.

Dre: Well that's awesome.

David: I mean, I don't, until a situation like this where we really start talking about it, I don't I don't think about it that much. I told that story, you know, when I did dad's eulogy when I did dad's funeral. And that's probably one of the few times I told it where, where the world heard that I had that talk. That was a very private moment, when you go in and confront your parents about their eternal destiny, that's not something you just go spout off. But it was important that the attendees at that funeral hear that, or I thought it was important that they hear that.

Dre: I think Papa would have wanted that shared

David: … especially his golf buddies.

Dre: So you're an avid golfer like your dad was. You were an engineer in sales for decades.

David: Yeah. By degree. Electrical engineering, University of Arkansas. I started in a refinery. I paid attention to the people that were selling me stuff. And I remember thinking about three years into it. Like, those guys look like they have a lot more fun than what I'm having. I didn't dislike my job, but I liked what they were doing. And, and then I, I knew they made more money than I did. And I actually thought I could do their job better than they were doing it. So I made the move into sales and I, I did that in some form or fashion until I retired about five years ago.

Dre: Yes. And you and mom had my brother Justin and then me. And you taught

David: very young.

David: Yeah. Very young.

Dre: You taught us about God. You brought us to church. You read Bible stories with us.

David: Yeah. It was a big part of our lives. Yeah. Yeah. I remember a lot of evenings. If it wasn't a Bible story, it was a book on Aesop fables. Or it might be some sort of a book that was just about morals. And about, whether it was hard work or honesty or anything. Book of Virtue by, uh, Bill Bennett.

David: So that's kind of when Christ first became real to you, you became a Christian. Is is there a specific time after that where you feel like there was a divine intervention or any miracles or any moments that are like burned into your timeline spiritually after that?

David: Two things pop in my mind. So I became a Christian at seventeen. I got married when I was twenty, you know, Kim and I were up in Fayetteville, Arkansas, and I remember times when I felt I really needed to pray for help to get through these tests and all these finals and everything. And there were times when I felt like it - this sounds weird, but it's just like, God just gave me such a peace to go take all those tests that day. And, and I knew that day it was going to be a very, very successful day. And now it didn't happen every time he wasn't there, like, I guess maybe he was there. But, you know, I didn't I didn't sense that every time.

And then, two other things come to mind. I remember I was, I started teaching adult, um, Sunday school, we called it in the church that we were in. And there were times when I was speaking to a group of what, ten or twelve, fifteen people. And it was almost like I was over here listening to these words coming out of my mouth. That was very strange to me, but I also felt like, that was God telling me what to say. At that moment, the spirit was speaking through me. And again, it didn't happen. Every time it was, it was really wasn't very often. It was just a few times. But boy, that blessed me when that happened.

And then once I remember I was praying just, you know, end of the day praying type of morning. I can't remember what it was morning or night. And there was a friend of ours and her face just appeared to me. I mean, it was just, it was like she was right here in front of me. And I thought, Lord, what what's going on? And I just had this impression: Pray for her, pray for Cindy. And so I did. I said, well, I don't know what to pray for, but, um, Lord, you want me to pray for her. So I'm praying for her. Do whatever it is.

Well, that evening we found out that she had gone to the hospital that day, and she had not going to get into the details but a pretty, pretty dramatic moment. And I thought, wow, God was telling me at that moment to pray for my friend.

And so I've had a few of those experiences, but I haven't had a whole lot of that. You know, I don't I don't sense a lot of spiritual presence, uh, unless I'm in Las Vegas or New Orleans and I sense an evil. I know, right. I'm sorry if you lived there, you know, but I'm just…

Dre: If you lived there and you love God, you're protected.

David: Yeah. But I just there is a sense that I get like that I can sense it seems like I can sense when there's evil around.

Dre: Yes.

David: But I'm not I'm not as big on the spiritual and emotional side as, uh, as… more of a teacher, more of a more even keel. Unless, unless the anger flares up.

Dre: Yeah. We'll talk about that. You touched upon what I think is one of your main spiritual gifts, which is teaching. And I think it's one of my main spiritual gifts too. And I know it's - I don't want to come across as presumptuous or arrogant. I mean, I'm creating all this content and I'm putting myself in this position of talking about the Bible on a podcast or whatever. But I don't think it's self-inflation. I think I just get genuinely so excited to share what I'm learning. And me and you have so many conversations about Bible geek stuff, what we're learning a lot of times the Lord will put us on similar journeys. We're learning similar things, and we just geek out about it on the phone.

David: And we want to share it. I think that's the thing. And you use the word arrogance - because someone could take it wrongly. When I say, did you know what, you know what the Bible says about that? Or do you know this story? Because I'm naturally excited about that. And I just want to share that with you.

Dre: Exactly.

David: And not everybody receives it because it's such a… it's controversial when you start talking about God. What they used to say, you know, you don't talk about God and politics when you're in sales. Well, I talked about both. I just have to talk about God. I can't not talk about that. That's. He. He is our life. So I think teaching is it, um. I mean, I've read all the spiritual gifts that are listed and, and that seems to be it. One could argue that I could help someone in the world of administration and organization, but I'm not sure. I just didn't pick that up in my work world.

Dre: Like, is it a spiritual gift or is it just or am I just organized?

David: Yeah, I don't, I'm not again, I'm not bragging, but I have run, you know, committees and I've had people say, man, I'm, I was really glad when you took over because we had an agenda. We didn't waste time. We got things done.

David: and a general sense of being a leader in some sense. Well, why would you do it any other way? Why would you go to a meeting and not get something done.

Dre: I'm basically you, dad. So. But I can sing better. Just kidding.

David: Better voice.

Dre: Okay, so what is one of your favorite Bible stories?

David: Oh, well, probably my favorite Bible story. And in my background growing up in the in the South and the family I came from, there was a tough side. We didn’t back down. And when I learned that, you know, Jesus is asking his disciples, who do people say that I am? And they say, you know, John the Baptist and Elijah and finally Jesus looks at him and say, well, who do you say? And Peter says, well, you're the Christ.

And Jesus says, yeah, Peter. And you didn't come up with that on your own. You know, my Father gave that to you. And then he says to Peter, upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. Well, in church tradition, what's the rock? Some say it was Peter, and I don’t believe it was.

Dre: I think his parents named him that for a reason. And Jesus was using his name to make a prophetic word.

David: No Jesus renamed him.

Dre: Oh, what was his name?

David: Simon.

Dre: But it wasn't Simon Peter?

David: They began to call him Simon Peter…

Dre: after Jesus prophetically gave him that name?

David: I think that's right.

Dre: Oh, I didn't know that.

David: Because he's calling him a Petra or a little rock, you know. And so, but what I found out is at the time that Jesus - and this is why I love this story - at the time that Jesus is having this conversation with them there on Mount Hermon and Mount Hermon is the rock or the mountain that was known where the evil spirits, if you go back to Genesis six, and you have the watchers that are coming down, the sons of God, and they are rebellious in their actions, and they are taking the daughters of men. And this is where the, you know, Nephilim come from. And we know that the dead Nephilim spirits continued to live. And that's what I think demons are.

Well, they entered earth, if you will, through that rock, that Mount Hermon location. And it was called The Gates of Hell. And here's Jesus that I see picking a fight. I'm building My church on this rock called the Gates of Hell. And the gates of hell are not going to prevail. I'm building it. I don't care how many you are. I don't care how big you are. At this moment, I get goosebumps. Because I see a man's man right there.

Dre: Well, that's the victory.

David: And he wasn't afraid. And he did it. And he's doing it.

Dre: The same spirit that quickened him from the grave is in us. So why should we be afraid of evil? I will fear no evil. I mean, we were just talking about exorcism, deliverance with mom, and she's like, I'm not gifted for that, I don't think. And I'm like, well, I think I am because I'm genuinely… there's been times where I've gotten to the point where I'm less afraid in these warfare type conversations and situations, because I've seen it work and I've seen the victory of the name of Jesus…. there's no competition.

David: And I have not personally experienced that. I have read of that many times, but I've not personally experienced that.

Dre: But but yeah, I think on Mount Hermon, He was like - that's the that's the redemption that Jesus can do. Any location, any history, any person who's been horrible, any place that's been used for horrible things. He loves to go in and go, you know what? I'm actually going to make this the beginning of my church. I'm gonna how about I come into this exact location and redeem it for my kingdom to advance around the world for the rest of history?

David: And I just, that's probably my favorite story because I just see his power and his passion. And he didn't do it just for him. I mean, it's his kingdom, but he did it for us. He did it. He did it for us. He did it for you. And I did not learn that story until about probably four or five years ago. And that was from Michael Heizer unseen realm. Everybody ought to read that. It's a must. It's a must read. I think I'm on my I'm literally today I'm through this period. I'm on my fourth reading of it.

Dre: I'm about to start my second.

David: Yeah. So, and that's not the only book that I read from him. But I learned that and, and it again, the whole idea of the spiritual warfare where, you know, what did Paul mean when he talked about powers and principalities and - one time, Paul speaks about, you know, idols, they're nothing. But then at one time he says, I don't want you to have anything to do with them. This is this is not good. This is dangerous stuff.

And so I've, I've been fascinated learning about the, the spiritual side or what Heizer called the unseen Realm.

Dre: Yeah. In the Old Testament gives a lot of context to Paul, of course, where in the Old Testament, sometimes the same chapter would say that they're they do have other gods. These nations do have other gods over them, and they seem real and personified. And then later in the chapter, an idol is nothing. It's a piece of wood. There's no other god but God, Yahweh.

Well, these sound like two different belief systems. Is there a pantheon of gods or is there one god? Yes, because there are other entities, little g god, Elohim that run around. And, you know, there's many divine beings. We know this from the totality of Scripture. So they serve God or they don't. Some do, some don't. Just like humans. And the lynchpin is Jesus. How do they respond to Jesus? You can tell a lot by a divine being, a supernatural being with how it responds to Jesus. And you can tell a lot about a human, how they respond to Jesus.

And then you can recognize why in the Old Testament, so many of the writers and prophets were saying, there's really no competition to Yahweh. All these other gods are nothing. It doesn't mean they don't exist. It means they're not lacking. He's preeminent. He is the preeminent creator, Elohim.

David: Well, they are like him. And then they're not like him. He is unique. He is the creator. But what you just said about, you know, human beings, they're the way they relate to Jesus tells you a lot about them. And, you know, next year it will be fifty years that I've been a Christian, but for fifty years I haven't understood what it really meant to put him first, to do it his way. For so many years, I was a Christian. I was, I was born again, I was saved, had something happen to me and I left this human body I was going to go be with Jesus, but I wasn't, wasn't living my life the way he wanted me to live in.

I mean, I have I have a tattoo here, right, that says trust and obey. And the trust side was, okay, Jesus, I trust you. Come do your thing with me. Make sure I'm okay. But the obedience side of it, you know, in obedience to me, you have the Ten commandments and all, but no obedience is doing it his way, his way. And if somebody said, well, what do you mean by that? I think I would take him. I think it's in James where James says, be quick to hear, be slow to speak, be slow to anger.

And when I began to really make that an important part of my life, along with the Shema, right To, you know, God, he's unique. You know, the Lord God is our God. He is. He is one. He's unique. Just what you were just saying. And in loving with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, with all your strength. And in what love your neighbor by listening quickly, speaking slowly and be slow to anger.

And that has really only become real to me seriously, in the last five or six years, I probably spent thirty or forty years, forty five years where my old self stepped in. Remember I told you we my family was we were quick to resolve things. If it was if it took a fight, it took a fight. I didn't…Who cared? I was in the fight, I didn't care. Well, that isn't God's way.

But that was what I hung on to for a long period of time. And I regret that. And it came out in anger. I don't I don't feel like I was ever one that felt contempt for people. You know, I felt like the when when the Lord is saying to judge not, it's like, don't hold them in contempt. That wasn't me. I didn't hold them in contempt, but I could get angry really quickly. But I got over it too.

So I really think only in the last few years when I really began to understand the unseen realm, the spiritual side is when it became so real, what it meant to be a human being and what it means to do it God's way.

And so there's a lot of times in life today, something will happen. And I wish I could think of a quick example and I'll just I'll just pause and I'll say, okay, let's do this God's way. Listen to the person even though you disagree with them, let them finish. You know, just do it God's way. And I'm amazed how it just works out. It just works out.

Dre: It's so funny because the thing that drew you to God was the peace of God. And then the stronghold from your family history was this quick to anger…Which is kind of the opposite of peace. The peace that God can't.

David: I know

Dre: Are you going to operate in your own strength or the peace of God? It's kind of the choice we have whenever something frustrating happens. Yeah. And it's a temperament thing, too. We're both not afraid of a fight, but I think you're touching on something huge because I've watched you evolve. Not that you were some evil, terrible person before, but you had a temper. And now it would take a lot. I hope it would take a lot to get to you now, because. No, I didn't wake up in the mornings ten, twenty, thirty, forty years ago saying, all right, I'm ready for a fight. I didn't wake up - I wanted to do what was right for as long as I can remember my mornings have always started with the Lord in Scripture, perhaps in a a book that accompanies Scripture, you know, unseen realm, prayer journal.

I mean, that's been that's just a that's the first hour of my day. And so you don't you don't come out of that and immediately jump into being a jerk. But if you're not doing it God's way and you're not conscious of that, that that jerk can come out pretty quick.

Dre: Yeah. And I think it's our sense of justice. It's these different things, our leadership skills and stuff. Bravery. It's things he gives us. But the enemy will twist it like you're supposed to have a sense of justice. That's how he made you. But are you supposed to take up for yourself? No. He gave us the sense of justice, mostly to take up for other people that are disenfranchised. Not like, get in arguments in a store.

So it's all a matter of tempering.

David: Does that car really need to get out of my way right now?

Dre: Yeah. Is it really that big of a deal? That's funny. I've. I've been learning that, too.

David: Yeah. But there's also back to the word piece. There's such peace in the moment. You did it God's way. Yeah, that was good. God's way is good. It is. And that's that's the peace that just overcomes you.

Dre: And sometimes it comes with a cost.

David: Could.

Dre: You lay down your pride, You gotta let something go. You gotta wait. Whatever it is. But it's worth it.

David: It is. Yeah. I agree, and you lay down at night and you just, you know, you go to sleep with a smile, if you will. So good stuff.

You talked about me playing golf and I mean a lot of different personalities. I'm fortunate enough to play at a, you know, it's all relative but a fairly high amateur level. And these guys are competitive, right? They're there to win. And you see it come out in a lot of different ways. And there's gracious winners. There's arrogant winners, there's ugly losers, and there's gentleman losers, you know? But you see it a lot.

But it's always impressive to me, the person that stays even keel. And that's that. You know, he's they're quick to listen, slow to speak and slow. Slow to anger. And that's what I say. And I don't know if they know they're doing that. Sometimes I, I don't play golf with a lot of Christian men. I don't have a… I don't know why. I just don't have a lot of high caliber quality golfers that happen to be believers. Maybe that's my fault. I often think that's my ministry. I gotta reach those guys somehow. Somehow. Gotta reach them. And, uh, we'll see.

Dre": Well, it's funny because, like, a lot of times when someone's angry, they're trying to demand respect for themselves. Like, I will be respected and don't disrespect me. And that those are the, the types of conversations that escalate. But really watching the people who stay undisturbed, those are the ones we respect and those are the ones we want to emulate.

David: I agree. Yeah, I agree with you. And I see it, you know, on the professional tour, my favorites are always guys that I know. Number one, they walk with the Lord. I always tend to root for that person, right? But I also like the humble and, uh, the kind, the generous, those are the ones that I tend to pull for.

Dre: That's cool. I mean, do you have any specific stories about times recently that you might have been tempted to go back into your old way of defending yourself and doing things your way, but the God helped you, like, choose this new his way.

David: Well, let's just let's just stick with golf. There's a team event and a group puts together eight, ten, twelve guys to go and play another club or whatever, like that. And why didn't they pick me? Well, the old me…. Well, I'm going to find out why they didn't pick me. I can tell you who on this team I, you know, I could just hopefully I wouldn't act like that. But that's what it would run through your mind. And I may have done that at one time. Or maybe I would have done it as a gentleman, but I would have confronted that it was. It's up to me to find out. Now, wait a minute. I think I'm good enough. Why didn't you take me? Be man enough to tell me I'm man enough to take it.

But I think what I've learned through this time is just let it go. And again, there's much more peace. Just leave it with God. It isn't mine to fix all the time. And I that that was not who I was. You know, as I'm saying that I'm thinking, how could somebody like this hearing this? Are they thinking, well, you just don't do anything. What are you just. ..No, it's not that I don't do anything. I think I, I really wait until I know God tells me to do that. And your mother is way better at that than I am.

Dre: Yeah, I yieldedness to God.

David: Yeah, yeah, that's a good word.

Dre: It doesn't mean we never take action on anything. It's just if you do it that way, a lot of times it's more fruitful. You'll do less and then you'll get more fruit out of it anyway.

David: That's really amazing. That's what I mean. Like, if someone's listening, like, what do you do anything? Well, no, but in, in the know I did something because God could. Now God can step in and do it his way. Yeah. Because I didn't mess it up. Right. I didn't get in the way, take over with my own will and do it. Yeah. And you know, that's, I mean, I've been, I've been in a study here recently on the parables and I've learned, you know, the parables are not about us, okay? They're not about us. They're about the kingdom of God or about what Jesus is doing. And so many times the kingdom is a great reversal. Jesus's kingdom is a great reversal of the kingdom that we see here. And that parable is pointing that out like, wow, just the opposite is true of what I thought the world would do it this way. Jesus is doing it this way. This way is actually a little easier for me. Let him do it. I'm getting a lot of that out of the parables. I'm not. I know we don't have time to go through all of those and those things, but it's that same theme. Do it his way. Which probably means get out of the way. A lot of times. And I've had to learn that. And again, not my personality, but it's it's a lot more peaceful to be that way.

Dre: So I want to see if you will pray. And I'm thinking there's two people out there listening that I'm imagining in my head. One, a person who shares our temperament. They know they need to be slower to speak. They know they need to be quick to listen, slower to become angry. That's what God's calling them to do. To do things his way. Pray for them if you would.

And then if there's someone out there that hasn't had the blessing I've had of having a dad who knows God having a dad at all, I don't know. Can you bless them from just a fatherly point of view and speak a blessing over them, if you would.

David: Well, father, it's my honor to pray and to pray specifically for people of my temperament because I understand them. What I do pray for them is that you open their eyes to the fact that doing it your way works, and doing it our way… it's a harder way. Doing it your way invokes your favor. And your favor gets things done. And even if it doesn't get things done the way we want it, it gets done in a way that we see in a peaceful manner. Peace for us. Those of us that want to get things done and are anxious to get things done, we can relax.

Recognizing that the Almighty God, whose arm is not too short for anything, He can do anything. He's got it.

And the wisdom and being quick to hear, really hear people out. Let them talk. Let them say what's on their mind. And then choose your words carefully, slow to speak and certainly put the anger aside. Slow to anger.

There may be a time you have to stand up and protect and fight. Yeah, okay, we get that. But that's a pretty rare time.

So, father, I pray for people like me that we can slow down and trust you to handle all things. And then as far as a father, you know, my dad was not a Christian until I had that opportunity to talk to him when he was in his early forties. But he was a good dad, and I knew that I was loved, and I knew I was protected, and I knew I was provided for. And so many times when I think of You - I saw provision and protection modeled in my earthly father. So it's easy to see you as a as that loving Dad.

But I would just if somebody didn't have that, I would just challenge them to go into Scripture and look at all of the times that you are that kind, loving father. Jesus called you ABBA - Daddy. Paul referred to you in the book of Romans as Daddy. What an intimate name. And here you are. We read of all the powerful things that you did. You are bigger, stronger, mightier than anything, but you're just precious.

And that you're our Daddy. And I would just… I pray for people who don't have that good picture of what an earthly father is, one that is, uh, kind and fun. And again, protecting and providing. I pray that they'll turn to you, and I know you'll make yourself known to them. I know, and I know they come to you through Jesus. And Jesus is the kindest friend we have, but we also know he's so strong.

Like we saw him on Mount Hermon, ready to take on the fight so that he could save us all. So, Father, thank you for the time that I got to spend with my baby girl.

Thank you for family, the earthly family, and of course, being a part of your family. God. Pray all these things in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Amen.

Dre: Amen. Thanks, Dad. Good job.

David: Enjoyed it.